Pick #25

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Noticing that DJ quits a lot isnt because people have a psychological issue about being too critical. It's because he quits a lot.

I remember when I was a hater, but then it turned out that it wasnt a psychological flaw, it was just that Eberflus and Fields suck.

And now Im a homer FOR Caleb LOL I must be schizo lol

You can  criticize DJ all you want, I just haven't seen a lot times he quit on plays. You're much better at detailed content than me. Show me and I'll agree with you.

[Mongo3451]

13 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Refresh my memory I remember one play last year that he got heat for.  Had it not been for DJ we won't have won the last two Packer games but the good things doesn't matter when people want to be critical. 

It's a character trait.  If you can't see it, it's not worth explaining.  It's not being critical when it's happened too many times.  Good player.  Flawed deeply.  Lacking football awareness...

[Stinger226]

7 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

It's a character trait.  If you can't see it, it's not worth explaining.  It's not being critical when it's happened too many times.  Good player.  Flawed deeply.  Lacking football awareness...

If you don't have the evidence to prove your point, I guess a WR with high production threw his whole career definitely shows a character flaw. I have to agree 

[Mongo3451]

19 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

If you don't have the evidence to prove your point, I guess a WR with high production threw his whole career definitely shows a character flaw. I have to agree 

Do your own homework.

[BearFan PHX]

This feels a lot like the Justin Fields debate. We are at the point where the offseason is next, and we start discussing the good and bad of the players, and for some people, that's difficult, because they are loyal fans, and so they defend the players as if people were insulting their younger sister or something.

And I do get where it comes from - a love of the Bears, on all sides.

But in reality, if we want to be winners, we have to make tough choices.

When the Patriots made the decision not to re-sign Akeim Hicks, was it because Bill Belichick failed to see the kind of player that was? of course not. Everyone in the league knew that Hicks was a good player. It was a business decision - how to allocate your cap to give your TEAM the best chance.

I dont hear anyone saying DJ sucks. I'll bet most of us would be for keeping him if his cap number was $12M. But it isnt, and we need resources elsewhere.

Also, no player is perfect. I love Caleb Williams, I can say with confidence that he is the best player on the team. He is easily the bears MVP. I can also say that he will be better 3 years from now than he is right now. So that means he has room to grow, and so does that mean Im slamming Caleb? If I see the good and bad parts of him?

I love DJ Moore after the catch. He's like a little running back out there with the ball. But he is often not ont he same page with Williams, and his body language is "goofy" at best and possibly "entitled and over it" like a Jay Cutler at worst.

There are times he does great things, but there are many times where he jogs his routes, and gives less than a full effort.

It might even be possible to move on from DJ for that reason alone. Ben Johnson doesnt want guys that tell the others it's OK to give less than the maximum effort! Remember when we wanted BJ to change the culture? Well that means accountability.

And his heir apparent (who will hopefully exceed anything Dj ever did) is ALREADY on the team in Luther Burden III. He is a DJ Moore clone - he has the same skill set, body type and abilities. Sure he's rougher, but you gotta respect that the coaches will coach him up, and he will ascend.

And then there are the salary cap ramifications. That makes it pretty clear that DJ Moore is on the trading block. The team that trades for him will pay him $16M, so he's a good value for them at that number.

And you know what? I dunno if he would fetch a 2nd rounder. I would imagine a 3rd or 4th rounder might be more likely. If DJ was part of a trade to the Raiders for Max Crosby for example, I'd expect to give DJ, our 2026 1st rounder, a 2027 second rounder and even that might not be enough in the real world.

So it is more than fair to speculate about a trade involving DJ that opens up $16M of cap space for us, and fetches a 3rd rounder in the process.

But it is also fair to notice the MANY times DJ has quit on his routes. I'll bet behind the scenes, in private conversations with Poles and Johnson, Caleb is lobbying to move on from Moore.

I get the fan love, but if you love the player more than the team, then I think that's not how you win Super Bowls.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

This feels a lot like the Justin Fields debate. We are at the point where the offseason is next, and we start discussing the good and bad of the players, and for some people, that's difficult, because they are loyal fans, and so they defend the players as if people were insulting their younger sister or something.

And I do get where it comes from - a love of the Bears, on all sides.

But in reality, if we want to be winners, we have to make tough choices.

When the Patriots made the decision not to re-sign Akeim Hicks, was it because Bill Belichick failed to see the kind of player that was? of course not. Everyone in the league knew that Hicks was a good player. It was a business decision - how to allocate your cap to give your TEAM the best chance.

I dont hear anyone saying DJ sucks. I'll bet most of us would be for keeping him if his cap number was $12M. But it isnt, and we need resources elsewhere.

Also, no player is perfect. I love Caleb Williams, I can say with confidence that he is the best player on the team. He is easily the bears MVP. I can also say that he will be better 3 years from now than he is right now. So that means he has room to grow, and so does that mean Im slamming Caleb? If I see the good and bad parts of him?

I love DJ Moore after the catch. He's like a little running back out there with the ball. But he is often not ont he same page with Williams, and his body language is "goofy" at best and possibly "entitled and over it" like a Jay Cutler at worst.

There are times he does great things, but there are many times where he jogs his routes, and gives less than a full effort.

It might even be possible to move on from DJ for that reason alone. Ben Johnson doesnt want guys that tell the others it's OK to give less than the maximum effort! Remember when we wanted BJ to change the culture? Well that means accountability.

And his heir apparent (who will hopefully exceed anything Dj ever did) is ALREADY on the team in Luther Burden III. He is a DJ Moore clone - he has the same skill set, body type and abilities. Sure he's rougher, but you gotta respect that the coaches will coach him up, and he will ascend.

And then there are the salary cap ramifications. That makes it pretty clear that DJ Moore is on the trading block. The team that trades for him will pay him $16M, so he's a good value for them at that number.

And you know what? I dunno if he would fetch a 2nd rounder. I would imagine a 3rd or 4th rounder might be more likely. If DJ was part of a trade to the Raiders for Max Crosby for example, I'd expect to give DJ, our 2026 1st rounder, a 2027 second rounder and even that might not be enough in the real world.

So it is more than fair to speculate about a trade involving DJ that opens up $16M of cap space for us, and fetches a 3rd rounder in the process.

But it is also fair to notice the MANY times DJ has quit on his routes. I'll bet behind the scenes, in private conversations with Poles and Johnson, Caleb is lobbying to move on from Moore.

I get the fan love, but if you love the player more than the team, then I think that's not how you win Super Bowls.

I don't disagree with anything you have  to say and since I have the time, I will go  threw all the games and look at wherever tape I find on the games to see if he quit on as many plays that people suggest.

I'm not subscribed to NFL+ so I may not find all 22 games to view.

I wish I had the memories that you guys have to remember every play DJ was involved with thru the year. I remember 2 noted plays. 

If I find a handful, I may even change my mind.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

This feels a lot like the Justin Fields debate. We are at the point where the offseason is next, and we start discussing the good and bad of the players, and for some people, that's difficult, because they are loyal fans, and so they defend the players as if people were insulting their younger sister or something.

And I do get where it comes from - a love of the Bears, on all sides.

But in reality, if we want to be winners, we have to make tough choices.

When the Patriots made the decision not to re-sign Akeim Hicks, was it because Bill Belichick failed to see the kind of player that was? of course not. Everyone in the league knew that Hicks was a good player. It was a business decision - how to allocate your cap to give your TEAM the best chance.

I dont hear anyone saying DJ sucks. I'll bet most of us would be for keeping him if his cap number was $12M. But it isnt, and we need resources elsewhere.

Also, no player is perfect. I love Caleb Williams, I can say with confidence that he is the best player on the team. He is easily the bears MVP. I can also say that he will be better 3 years from now than he is right now. So that means he has room to grow, and so does that mean Im slamming Caleb? If I see the good and bad parts of him?

I love DJ Moore after the catch. He's like a little running back out there with the ball. But he is often not ont he same page with Williams, and his body language is "goofy" at best and possibly "entitled and over it" like a Jay Cutler at worst.

There are times he does great things, but there are many times where he jogs his routes, and gives less than a full effort.

It might even be possible to move on from DJ for that reason alone. Ben Johnson doesnt want guys that tell the others it's OK to give less than the maximum effort! Remember when we wanted BJ to change the culture? Well that means accountability.

And his heir apparent (who will hopefully exceed anything Dj ever did) is ALREADY on the team in Luther Burden III. He is a DJ Moore clone - he has the same skill set, body type and abilities. Sure he's rougher, but you gotta respect that the coaches will coach him up, and he will ascend.

And then there are the salary cap ramifications. That makes it pretty clear that DJ Moore is on the trading block. The team that trades for him will pay him $16M, so he's a good value for them at that number.

And you know what? I dunno if he would fetch a 2nd rounder. I would imagine a 3rd or 4th rounder might be more likely. If DJ was part of a trade to the Raiders for Max Crosby for example, I'd expect to give DJ, our 2026 1st rounder, a 2027 second rounder and even that might not be enough in the real world.

So it is more than fair to speculate about a trade involving DJ that opens up $16M of cap space for us, and fetches a 3rd rounder in the process.

But it is also fair to notice the MANY times DJ has quit on his routes. I'll bet behind the scenes, in private conversations with Poles and Johnson, Caleb is lobbying to move on from Moore.

I get the fan love, but if you love the player more than the team, then I think that's not how you win Super Bowls.

I think it's quite silly to say I'm a player guy and not a team fan over liking DJ. I have been a bear's fan for 60 years and had plenty of reasons to bail on this team.

[Stinger226]

Here's a mock off-season that picks a LT with our first pick. I don't agree with a lot of his moves especially moving up in the draft but he does keep track of the Cap space overall.  Also he uses PFF to much in his evaluations. Something I think a lot of people lose track of when suggesting trades and cuts. 

 

[jason]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I don't disagree with anything you have  to say and since I have the time, I will go  threw all the games and look at wherever tape I find on the games to see if he quit on as many plays that people suggest.

I'm not subscribed to NFL+ so I may not find all 22 games to view.

I wish I had the memories that you guys have to remember every play DJ was involved with thru the year. I remember 2 noted plays. 

If I find a handful, I may even change my mind.

I don’t know if you’re being tongue-in-cheek, or maybe even sarcastic, but I’m backing you up either way.

i don’t recall him quitting on more than two total plays that have been brought up. That’s counting the Rans play.

Furthermore, I second the team support being paramount. Bears above any player. But I’m of the belief that the bears should not tinker with offensive weapons this offseason after such a tremendous offensive swing this year. Fixing the D should be priorities 1-3.

[Stinger226]

17 minutes ago, jason said:

I don’t know if you’re being tongue-in-cheek, or maybe even sarcastic, but I’m backing you up either way.

i don’t recall him quitting on more than two total plays that have been brought up. That’s counting the Rans play.

Furthermore, I second the team support being paramount. Bears above any player. But I’m of the belief that the bears should not tinker with offensive weapons this offseason after such a tremendous offensive swing this year. Fixing the D should be priorities 1-3.

To be honest I just don't remember all the quit plays people talk about. I will go threw all the tape and check it out. I think what happens is he quits on a route and then people laber someone a quitter and then apply the tag when it's an isolated play or two. I am willing to say I'm wrong with my perception. 

And like you said, the second year of a potential great offense, I don't see them making any big changes. Defense is a definite a make over.

[AZ54]

There is far too much over analysis of the DJ Moore situation focused on one or two plays.   Everyone saw the pouty guy last year.  New coaches come in and the first thing they tell him is to clean up his body language and effort.   Every player was told to improve effort.  Luther Burden too.  
 

Big plays, toughness, good hands… there are plenty of positives DJ brings to our team.  Players may take routes off when it’s not their turn.  I don’t like that.  What I despise is when you make a mistake or see the mistake on the throw and you quit hustling and just let the safety get the INT uncontested.  Personally I don’t have that give up gene in me and I’d have been diving on top of the DB to break up the pass.  
 

Personal quibbles aside this is purely a roster construction decision for me.   The WR group will be better with DJ next year but if another option presents itself where the Bears overall are better without him then do it.  

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

There is far too much over analysis of the DJ Moore situation focused on one or two plays.   Everyone saw the pouty guy last year.  New coaches come in and the first thing they tell him is to clean up his body language and effort.   Every player was told to improve effort.  Luther Burden too.  
 

Big plays, toughness, good hands… there are plenty of positives DJ brings to our team.  Players may take routes off when it’s not their turn.  I don’t like that.  What I despise is when you make a mistake or see the mistake on the throw and you quit hustling and just let the safety get the INT uncontested.  Personally I don’t have that give up gene in me and I’d have been diving on top of the DB to break up the pass.  
 

Personal quibbles aside this is purely a roster construction decision for me.   The WR group will be better with DJ next year but if another option presents itself where the Bears overall are better without him then do it.  

This thread is #25 and we are talking about DJ?  You always make good points instead of arguing about a player value. The bear's could care less what we as fans think about DJ. Their opinion is all that matters.

[AZ54]

20 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

This thread is #25 and we are talking about DJ?  You always make good points instead of arguing about a player value. The bear's could care less what we as fans think about DJ. Their opinion is all that matters.

Yes and I’m very curious who we draft this year.  Last year went well with a better coaching staff.  Can we repeat in year two?  

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Yes and I’m very curious who we draft this year.  Last year went well with a better coaching staff.  Can we repeat in year two?  

We are going to have some new coaches because teams want the BJ tree and already starting this year.

I trust them to replace assistants.

I watched a lot of podcasts yesterday,  someone mentioned, Adam Hoge, that instead of putting Theo back at LT he moved Thuney there. Clearly showing how valuable he thinks that is. I think it will be BPA available between LT and DT. We will draft a LT in the few couple of picks. 

Poles is not stupid he's going to get what BJ wants. This will be a defensive draft overall but also a LT.

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

This thread is #25 and we are talking about DJ?  You always make good points instead of arguing about a player value. The bear's could care less what we as fans think about DJ. Their opinion is all that matters.

This is hilarious.  Nobody said anything bad about DJ until you started slurping his jock.  Yes, this is about #25 and I mentioned trading DJ for someone if we can't get Wyatt we need at 25.  You made it a fanboy post.  Now you want to blame others for hijacking it.  My opinion of DJ was in another post and you drug it over.  I'm not taking the heat for you not understanding how English composition works.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

23 hours ago, AZ54 said:

There is far too much over analysis of the DJ Moore situation focused on one or two plays.   Everyone saw the pouty guy last year.  New coaches come in and the first thing they tell him is to clean up his body language and effort.   Every player was told to improve effort.

Sticking with the theme of reading body language etc and correlating that to which side of the ball needs more attention, I’d agree it’s the D.  I think several here will agree that Jaylon Johnson has not been the player we saw that one year he signed for a big deal. He’s essentially a  body filling the roster at this point.   And aside from the one takeaway earlier this year, what has Stevenson done for us lately?  You wanna talk about taking plays off?  I’m sure we all clearly remember his infamous lolly gag moment while Washington stole a victory away from us last year.   Never mind the lack of pass rush from our front 7.  These two guys alone haven’t done much this year despite the new regime and attitude adjustment our team has adopted.  

Id say the offense is overall good for now.  The focus really needs to be on the defense as a whole.