Bears Free Agents

[Stinger226]

9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Im saying the IDEA of worrying about a players feelings and being a fan boy is childish and stupid. That the real decisions are hard and are about money and production. Thats football. The idea that what we write here affects GMs desire to trade for DJ Moore for example is dumb. That IDEA is dumb. If we cant say that, then we cant say anything.

Im talking about football, youre trying to keep this fight alive AGAIN. You are not DJ Moore, so when I say he takes plays off, that is allowed on a Bears board. DJ doesnt need you to emotionally protect him.

and LOL at derogatory language. dont be such a baby. simplistic and childish are descriptors. They are words with meaning and they convey my opinion.

Someone needs to tell YOU to cut it out.

I'll remember when I describe an opinion of yours, as simplistic  and childish, it's  a football term and not personal. 

This has nothing to do about DJ's feelings  it's about disagreeing with the quitter label. You always take it somewhere it never was. 

Trading for assets and cap space is a different conversation than a player over seeing him as a quitter. You always try to mix conversations. 

You are always the player that punched first and then played innocent when the other guy punches back. This is a football analogy you will understand.

 

 

[Stinger226]

This guy is okay but it amazes me he has 155,000 followers. He has some good ideas, don't agree with everything.

 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I'll remember when I describe an opinion of yours, as simplistic  and childish, it's  a football term and not personal. 

This has nothing to do about DJ's feelings  it's about disagreeing with the quitter label. You always take it somewhere it never was. 

Trading for assets and cap space is a different conversation than a player over seeing him as a quitter. You always try to mix conversations. 

You are always the player that punched first and then played innocent when the other guy punches back. This is a football analogy you will understand.

 

 

Did that really hurt your feelings? Or are you pretending so you can fight? Im not interested.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

19 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

It was one example of DJ Moore giving a half effort among many.

It's not that former NFL QB JT OSullivan (QB School on youtube) is the ultimate authority, its just that he rightly showed DJ phoning it in. There are many examples of it.

I dont understand why people get so stuck on players and dont want to improve the roster with better players.

Yet we can just as easily forget all the other handsfuls of plays where he gave full effort (and then some).  Again, we don’t know who really messed up the play. A lot of “experts” assume it was DJ.  Sounds like Rome may have been complicit too?  According to JT anyhow?  
 

By the by, I’m convinced if either one of us decided to apply ourselves just a little bit more in football we could’ve accomplished as much in life as has O’Sullivan.  Starting a YouTube channel isn’t all that complicated.  
 

And although not a fan of just discarding a player because it’s what everyone wants, I realize that DJ is near the end of his shelf life (playing wise) and is now a valuable commodity towards maybe one younger (and probably unproven) defensive player.  I still remember the days when people used to take pride in career players staying with their teams.   The league has changed over time.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Yet we can just as easily forget all the other handsfuls of plays where he gave full effort (and then some).  Again, we don’t know who really messed up the play. A lot of “experts” assume it was DJ.  Sounds like Rome may have been complicit too?  According to JT anyhow?

Im not sure what youre saying. Ill try to take them one at a time. First here, you seem to be saying that giving full effort half the time is a good thing? Im not saying DJ never gave full effort, Im saying he quit on routes a lot, and that it caused interceptions. And not just the one - remember the Green Bay game in the left front corner of the end zone?

Someone who doesnt give full effort all the time is a problem for the culture.

Rome also has some hard work to do. He has a LOT of drops. Hes also on a rookie contract and still learning. DJ is getting $28.5M a year. He should be an example to inspire Rome to do better.
 

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

By the by, I’m convinced if either one of us decided to apply ourselves just a little bit more in football we could’ve accomplished as much in life as has O’Sullivan.  Starting a YouTube channel isn’t all that complicated.  

So this is just nonsense. When you look at JT's analysis, he clearly knows a lot about routes and offensive schemes. I dont always agree with him, but I think he is right a lot.

Also, I didnt say "because JT says this it must be true" LOL I have my own eyes, and I see what goes on. What I said was that it was SO bad that JT called it "F*ck You Effort" thats not just bad, its awful. But even if JT never existed, DJ is still half assing it way too much and costing this team.

 

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And although not a fan of just discarding a player because it’s what everyone wants, I realize that DJ is near the end of his shelf life (playing wise) and is now a valuable commodity towards maybe one younger (and probably unproven) defensive player.  I still remember the days when people used to take pride in career players staying with their teams.   The league has changed over time.  

So i think you do understand. It feels like you just want to have some kind of loyalty for DJ. Thats nice in the real world, youd probably make an excellent friend or neighbor. But this is football, and if you want to win, then you gotta do whats necessary to build a winning team.

What I dont understand is why people seem to get emotional and want to defend these players. They arent hurting from our comments. Theyre all millionaires. They deserve to be judged harshly for their play on the field. Thats how you build a winning team. With accountability - not participation trophies?

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Again, we don’t know who really messed up the play. A lot of “experts” assume it was DJ.

Regardless of knowing or not, we know three things.  1). DJ inexplicably slowed down.  2). Caleb expected to be elsewhere.  3).  Tom Waddle said, the cardinal sin for any receiver is to let a deep safety get under you in a route.

If you are trying to identify poop, you don't start by tasting...

[BearFan PHX]

16 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Regardless of knowing or not, we know three things.  1). DJ inexplicably slowed down.  2). Caleb expected to be elsewhere.  3).  Tom Waddle said, the cardinal sin for any receiver is to let a deep safety get under you in a route.

If you are trying to identify poop, you don't start by tasting...

exactly - it isnt rocket science.

Remember the route DJ quit on causing an interception in the GB game, at the left front corner of the end zone?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

So i think you do understand. It feels like you just want to have some kind of loyalty for DJ. Thats nice in the real world, youd probably make an excellent friend or neighbor. But this is football, and if you want to win, then you gotta do whats necessary to build a winning team.

Your backhanded insults are cute I’ll give you that.  I see why Stinger gets so fed up with you.  You don’t have to take my word for it since you seem to know who or what I am.  Just watch the video clip Stinger supplied on Lucky’s post and see what Olin Kreutz has to say about it.  We know he has the bonafides.   

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Your backhanded insults are cute I’ll give you that.  I see why Stinger gets so fed up with you.  You don’t have to take my word for it since you seem to know who or what I am.  Just watch the video clip Stinger supplied on Lucky’s post and see what Olin Kreutz has to say about it.  We know he has the bonafides.   

its not a put down I MEANT it. I was saying the things that make you a good person dont necessarily apply to running a football team.

Why is everyone so prickly right now? Geez.
 

[Stinger226]

If it's true that DJ was taking plays off all year, does anyone honestly think BJ would be playing him? He watches tape 10 times more than we do. Walker would have been getting snaps. Burden wasn't getting a lot of snaps until he blocked better. BJ notices everything. 

[BearFan PHX]

Every week on the TTNL game wrapup they showed film of DJ jogging routes. I saw it with my own eyes every week. Its just true.

[Stinger226]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Every week on the TTNL game wrapup they showed film of DJ jogging routes. I saw it with my own eyes every week. Its just true.

BJ won't play you if you don't show effort in blocking, DJ played every game so that tells me he didn't have a problem with DJs effort. I'm on BJs Twitter account, I'll send him a link to Phil's channel.

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

BJ won't play you if you don't show effort in blocking, DJ played every game so that tells me he didn't have a problem with DJs effort. I'm on BJs Twitter account, I'll send him a link to Phil's channel.

He kinda had to play him this year.  DJ being the incumbent leader/elder statesman of the WR room, had a lot of clout with the youngsters.  BJ simply couldn't come in and eviscerate the captain.  That's why the off-season body language thing came out delicately played.

Now that BJ and Randall El have established their trust with the players DJ's influence doesn't carry the weight.  In the meantime lesser weapons got the "no block, no rock" treatment. (Burden,Walker, Loveland).  Time means a lot.

Going forward, Loveland, Burden and Walker enter their second pro year needing more targets.  Let alone Rome entering the beginning of his prime.  The combination of the above make DJ expendable.  We need one of the above to accept the crown.  If they need to find that dog, they can get a hungry vet cheaply in free agency.

At the end of the day, we want an Amon Ra type to be our leader. (No plays off). Plays off are for the sideline...

[BearFan PHX]

7 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

BJ won't play you if you don't show effort in blocking, DJ played every game so that tells me he didn't have a problem with DJs effort. I'm on BJs Twitter account, I'll send him a link to Phil's channel.

thats faulty logic since I saw him jogging every week. I saw it with my own eyes. TTNL saw it and commented on it too.

Youre alleging that BJ didnt see it? I doubt that highly. He sees everything.

You just want to protect DJ for some emotional reason.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

He kinda had to play him this year.  DJ being the incumbent leader/elder statesman of the WR room, had a lot of clout with the youngsters.  BJ simply couldn't come in and eviscerate the captain.  That's why the off-season body language thing came out delicately played.

Now that BJ and Randall El have established their trust with the players DJ's influence doesn't carry the weight.  In the meantime lesser weapons got the "no block, no rock" treatment. (Burden,Walker, Loveland).  Time means a lot.

Going forward, Loveland, Burden and Walker enter their second pro year needing more targets.  Let alone Rome entering the beginning of his prime.  The combination of the above make DJ expendable.  We need one of the above to accept the crown.  If they need to find that dog, they can get a hungry vet cheaply in free agency.

At the end of the day, we want an Amon Ra type to be our leader. (No plays off). Plays off are for the sideline...

AMEN - we need accountability, not these soft emotional fan boys.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

thats faulty logic since I saw him jogging every week. I saw it with my own eyes. TTNL saw it and commented on it too.

Youre alleging that BJ didnt see it? I doubt that highly. He sees everything.

You just want to protect DJ for some emotional reason.

Why do you keep saying for emotional reasons? You can't like a player just because you think he is good?  I don't get the underlying implications all the time instead of just face value in a comment. 

I'm saying BJ doesn't put up with slackers and he didn't sit him during the season at anytime. Everyone saw the playoff game questionable play that's not the debate. I don't expect players to be perfect all the time.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Why do you keep saying for emotional reasons? You can't like a player just because you think he is good?  I don't get the underlying implications all the time instead of just face value in a comment. 

I'm saying BJ doesn't put up with slackers and he didn't sit him during the season at anytime. Everyone saw the playoff game questionable play that's not the debate. I don't expect players to be perfect all the time.

its because you have a pattern of preferring the players already on the roster, even when its clear that they are terrible.

This whole saga started with Charles Leno. I said he was terrible, and you said I was a hater with a psychological predelection to be negative. Even though Ive been on this board at least 20 years before that and no one thought that about me, or had any real problem with me. Then came Justin Fields, Matt Eberflus, Braxton Jones. All are terrible, and I think youre still even saying we should sign Braxton again rather than any number of other mid tier free agent LTs. Why?

Anyway, I was the negative pessimist according to many many posts of yours. A lot of them were much more aggressive and nasty than you have been since our big blowup. Then suddenly I am saying Caleb is gonna be awesome, even when he was just learning and not complete or great yet. So then I dunno, was I a homer or an optimist? The point is, I watch the film, and base my opinions on that. You think i want to fight, but I promise I never change my opinion just so it will be the opposite of yours (or anyones!) it's just what I really think. And usually I am right too. Because its based on the film, and the salary cap, and nothing else. Im not so smart. I just watch the tape. And Im not the only one who thought Justin was bad or Caleb is good. So Im hardly claiming genius status here. To me all that was obvious stuff that anyone should see. Not special insight or whatever.

So yes, you have every right to your opinion no one has ever said otherwise, but since you have characterized my opinions as being the result of emotions so many times, it must be fair for me to point out that youre a homer who wants to keep every player rather than improve the roster. You have actually said in the last month or so that Sweat, Dayo and Booker will be better next year and we should go with them! Dude! I get the loyalty, but dude!

Also, for DJ it's not just one play. Its at least one play every game. Ive been looking at it and talking about it all season long. And Im not the only one who has been. Its real.

I hope they move on from DJ Moore. He doesnt suck, but hes not a legit WR1, and we dont need him anymore, and hes doing more harm than good to our future plans.

I hope that answers your question. I didnt use any language to try to be mean or hurt anyones feelings (how the hell do I have to even say that on a sports talk board?!) I was direct and told the truth of what I think. If your point of view on keeping players is homer-ish i dont think it is insulting to say so - its more like explaining than name calling.

Anyway we are all grown men so i think a lot of this offense is theater.

I got banned for a week for saying an IDEA was "stupid" - freaking kindergarden if you ask me. But whatever...