bowlingtwig Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I thought that this might be interesting. The score today during my lunch had a poll wanting to know if you would give Denver all draft picks to get him. Just so everyone is clear, we have a total of 9 draft picks however the 3 comp picks can not be traded therefore the reason I said the 6 eligible draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I see we think alike! Either great minds or we belond in the same asylum! Is there an "any of the above" or "whatever it takes" choice? But, I'd let 2 ones go... I thought that this might be interesting. The score today during my lunch had a poll wanting to know if you would give Denver all draft picks to get him. Just so everyone is clear, we have a total of 9 draft picks however the 3 comp picks can not be traded therefore the reason I said the 6 eligible draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I see we think alike! Either great minds or we belond in the same asylum! Is there an "any of the above" or "whatever it takes" choice? But, I'd let 2 ones go... i have a feeling this bidding war is going to get insane and be way out of reach for JA. i hope i'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 i have a feeling this bidding war is going to get insane and be way out of reach for JA. i hope i'm wrong What is insane is that the Bears can not Draft and develop their own stud Franchise QB so now they must pay whatever price they must to aquire one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Agreed... What is insane is that the Bears can not Draft and develop their own stud Franchise QB so now they must pay whatever price they must to aquire one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 What is insane is that the Bears can not Draft and develop their own stud Franchise QB so now they must pay whatever price they must to aquire one! i agree, and want cutler bad but there is a point or amount where you will give up too much and do more harm then good. one thing that is making me happy is that the Bears are at least going to make an offer for him and not just sit on the sidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Cutler is the key to bringing home a perenial Championship Contender. JA pulled a Kenny Williams and must have had a true candid reflection on the direction of the organization when he stated a few months ago that the key to winning is upgrading the QB postiton! Williams recently won a world series and identified the future success of the organization would be determined on retooling and adding young talent to the organization. I would say he is on the right track with some of the moves he has made over the past 2 years. Here is why I belive this to be true if we can just do what it takes to aquire Cutler: - We all know JA can get the DEF sqaured away in one draft as he has been good at drafting DEF! - JA is good with managing the CAP - He has also done a good job at patching an above average OL together when needed (which will buy time to draft or sign younger talent to protect Cutler) - JA does need some luck with getting a play making WR (we did have Berrian but the price was not right and JA let him go) -- JA has done a nice job with getting TE's as well as special teams WHAT WILL BE THE BEARS PLAN IF WE FAIL TO GET JAY CUTLER? FILL IN THE BLANK _____________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'd 100% give up 2 1st rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Id give them 2 firsts and Orton. If needed maybe a second day pick or a body for their defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 2 draft picks (either this year's 1st and 2nd or this and next year's first) and Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Orton, our 1st and 3rd this year and a conditional pick next year depending on his durability or a statistical plateau this upcoming season (so that could be a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Tommy Harris + this years 1st and 3rd. Angelo can find defensive players in the late rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 It seems like our desire for a franchise QB has intoxicated us to the point of making irrational decisions, IMO. I like Cutler and would love to see him a Bears. I do not want to give nearly as much as many of you. I can understand a first this year, but if we gave up a top D player with the 1st rounder, that is all I would give. I prefer this year's 1st and a conditional pick next year. I am not totally sold on the kid. He tosses way too many INTs and seems to be irratic in his decision making. My guess is another team will give up the "house" for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I look at it this way, how many first round picks would it take the Bears to finally pick a QB of Cutler's quality? You can argue that Cutler is not a quality QB, but if the Bears think he is a franchise QB, then get it done and worry about plugging holes later. Angelo seems to be able to find good defensive talent in the draft. Good offense needs to be acquired via free agency, trade, or off of the scrap heap. I have another stupid question. Is Cutler the Bears next Rick Mirer? If not, if he is the real deal, I would trade anybody off of the defense to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Pix, couple things. He did have a lot of picks, and is the sort of aggressive downfield QB who is going to have more picks than a conservative system QB. With that said, i think it worth pointing out that Denver RBs were dropping like flys last year, and Cutler was forced to throw the ball more. He was one of only 2 QBs in the league w/ over 600 pass attempts. The other was Brees, who actually had only one fewer int. Getting away from specifics though, how much can we nit pic. Honestly, if Manning were available, I absolutely believe there would be bear fans saying he doesn't play well enough in the postseason, and isn't worth it. If Rothlisberger were available, a bear fan would say he is only average. Rivers would be questioned for playing behind a stud OL. Eli didn't look as great w/o Burress. Point is, you can find a reason to question any QB in the league, today and going back. Farve in his prime threw picks and took risks, but that is simply part of what you get w/ an aggressive QB. If all we ever do is nit pic QBs, how will we ever get a franchise QB? There is simply no such thing as a perfect QB. The closest thing to a perfect football player was Walter Payton, and maybe he just spoiled us. We can not hold out for perfection. In Cutler, you have a young, pro bowl QB. In Cutler, you have an incredibly rare situation of a player being available unlike most any time in the past. Are there questions on Cutler? Sure. But at the same time, I would argue he is simply FAR MORE proven than any other option we have seen, or will see. It seems like our desire for a franchise QB has intoxicated us to the point of making irrational decisions, IMO. I like Cutler and would love to see him a Bears. I do not want to give nearly as much as many of you. I can understand a first this year, but if we gave up a top D player with the 1st rounder, that is all I would give. I prefer this year's 1st and a conditional pick next year. I am not totally sold on the kid. He tosses way too many INTs and seems to be irratic in his decision making. My guess is another team will give up the "house" for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Pix, couple things. He did have a lot of picks, and is the sort of aggressive downfield QB who is going to have more picks than a conservative system QB. With that said, i think it worth pointing out that Denver RBs were dropping like flys last year, and Cutler was forced to throw the ball more. He was one of only 2 QBs in the league w/ over 600 pass attempts. The other was Brees, who actually had only one fewer int. Getting away from specifics though, how much can we nit pic. Honestly, if Manning were available, I absolutely believe there would be bear fans saying he doesn't play well enough in the postseason, and isn't worth it. If Rothlisberger were available, a bear fan would say he is only average. Rivers would be questioned for playing behind a stud OL. Eli didn't look as great w/o Burress. Point is, you can find a reason to question any QB in the league, today and going back. Farve in his prime threw picks and took risks, but that is simply part of what you get w/ an aggressive QB. If all we ever do is nit pic QBs, how will we ever get a franchise QB? There is simply no such thing as a perfect QB. The closest thing to a perfect football player was Walter Payton, and maybe he just spoiled us. We can not hold out for perfection. In Cutler, you have a young, pro bowl QB. In Cutler, you have an incredibly rare situation of a player being available unlike most any time in the past. Are there questions on Cutler? Sure. But at the same time, I would argue he is simply FAR MORE proven than any other option we have seen, or will see. Says the guy who nitpics more than anybody..... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I was interested in what 2 first round picks really means, so I took a look at the picks made by a team in the last half of the draft two years in a row. I threw out the last two years (too recent to really know what kind of players they are) and looked at 2005 and 2006. This is with the general understanding that if the Bears traded two firsts for Cutler, they would trade this year's 18th pick and next year's pick would be in the last half of the draft (since presumably Cutler makes this team better). Here's the players that would be equivalent to two first round picks by one team: Chiefs – Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali Bengals – David Pollack, Johnathan Joseph Vikings – Erasmus James, Chad Greenaway Rams – Alex Barron, Tye Hill Cowboys – Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter Jaguars – Matt Jones, Marcedes Lewis Chargers – Luis Castillo, Antonio Cromartie Colts – Marlin Jackson, Joseph Addai Steelers – Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes Eagles –Mike Patterson, Broderick Bunkley Patriots – Logan Mankins, Laurence Maroney Any of those combinations, from a talent standpoint, you wouldn't trade for a franchise QB given the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Funny zing, but exactly how is it true? Honestly asking here. What are the players who you believe I nit-pic. You and I have been talking at length about OL, so you could be talking about the veterans we have added and are still looking at. You believe my arguments about them are nitpicking? Pace - Major decline issue. Only two teams reported to have interest in him, which IMHO is significant for a player of his status. Injuries the last 4 consecutive season is not nit-picking either IMHO. Omiyale - Um, 4 years/ 2 teams and one start due to injury. Further, we are looking at him at a position different from what he has been working at for the last 4 seasons. Nitpicking? Shaffer - I actually have never said much negative about Shaffer. My only issue w/ his addition is the believe that Angelo will pass on OL early in the draft due to having him. That is a criticism of Angelo, not Shaffer specifically. I know you tossed in the "LOL", but at the same time, for the joke to stick there needs to be a level of truth in there. I am not saying I have never nitpicked, but just curious who it is you might be thinking of. Says the guy who nitpics more than anybody..... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I am 100% on board w/ the idea of trading two 1st round picks. At the same time, I think you have to know what you are potentially giving up. Consider NO trading up to get Ricky Williams as an example. They made the trade w/ the belief the future 1st would be a late round pick, which is what you are assuming, but the season didn't go as planned and their pick ended up being a top 5 selection. So I do not believe you can simply "assume" both picks given up would be late 1st round selections. It is quite possible we suck and the pick ends up high. What may be more applicable would be to simply look at Angelo's history in the 1st round. Columbo - Haynes - Grossman - Tommie Harris - Benson - DManning - Olsen - Williams IMHO, if you took the two best players from this list, Culter would still be viewed as the better value. I was interested in what 2 first round picks really means, so I took a look at the picks made by a team in the last half of the draft two years in a row. I threw out the last two years (too recent to really know what kind of players they are) and looked at 2005 and 2006. This is with the general understanding that if the Bears traded two firsts for Cutler, they would trade this year's 18th pick and next year's pick would be in the last half of the draft (since presumably Cutler makes this team better). Here's the players that would be equivalent to two first round picks by one team: Chiefs – Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali Bengals – David Pollack, Johnathan Joseph Vikings – Erasmus James, Chad Greenaway Rams – Alex Barron, Tye Hill Cowboys – Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter Jaguars – Matt Jones, Marcedes Lewis Chargers – Luis Castillo, Antonio Cromartie Colts – Marlin Jackson, Joseph Addai Steelers – Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes Eagles –Mike Patterson, Broderick Bunkley Patriots – Logan Mankins, Laurence Maroney Any of those combinations, from a talent standpoint, you wouldn't trade for a franchise QB given the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Funny zing, but exactly how is it true? Honestly asking here. What are the players who you believe I nit-pic. You and I have been talking at length about OL, so you could be talking about the veterans we have added and are still looking at. You believe my arguments about them are nitpicking? Pace - Major decline issue. Only two teams reported to have interest in him, which IMHO is significant for a player of his status. Injuries the last 4 consecutive season is not nit-picking either IMHO. Omiyale - Um, 4 years/ 2 teams and one start due to injury. Further, we are looking at him at a position different from what he has been working at for the last 4 seasons. Nitpicking? Shaffer - I actually have never said much negative about Shaffer. My only issue w/ his addition is the believe that Angelo will pass on OL early in the draft due to having him. That is a criticism of Angelo, not Shaffer specifically. I know you tossed in the "LOL", but at the same time, for the joke to stick there needs to be a level of truth in there. I am not saying I have never nitpicked, but just curious who it is you might be thinking of. lol. You just nitpicked my joke. You said yourself you nitpick so there IS truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 lol. You just nitpicked my joke. Crap. Stepped into that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 lol. You just nitpicked my joke. Crap. Stepped into that one. lol Its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheresMyronBaker Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I would offer their choice of Tommy OR Lance, add Orton, and whatever pick 2nd round or lower. Or next years first...if I get a midrounder from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I am 100% on board w/ the idea of trading two 1st round picks. At the same time, I think you have to know what you are potentially giving up. Consider NO trading up to get Ricky Williams as an example. They made the trade w/ the belief the future 1st would be a late round pick, which is what you are assuming, but the season didn't go as planned and their pick ended up being a top 5 selection. So I do not believe you can simply "assume" both picks given up would be late 1st round selections. It is quite possible we suck and the pick ends up high. What may be more applicable would be to simply look at Angelo's history in the 1st round. Columbo - Haynes - Grossman - Tommie Harris - Benson - DManning - Olsen - Williams IMHO, if you took the two best players from this list, Culter would still be viewed as the better value. I think in a bidding war with deep pockets skins, it might take a 1 and 3 this year and a 1 next year, and may have to throw in a guy(Harrison)DT. How far would you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I would give up what you just mentioned. I am already on record giving up a 1st and 3rd this year, along w/ our 1st next year. I do not think it will be all those picks, plus a player, but if Harrison gets it done? Done. I like some of what i saw from Harrison last year too, but it isn't like the burst onto the scene and took a job there for the taking. Yea, I would throw him into the deal, though I honestly think I could then take the 3rd round pick out of the equation. Sure, there are limits on what I would give. Whether people believe it or not, there are limits on what Wash will give too. I think in a bidding war with deep pockets skins, it might take a 1 and 3 this year and a 1 next year, and may have to throw in a guy(Harrison)DT. How far would you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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