D-Coordinator

[SoxFan1]

Are we trying to become the damn Detroit Lions light? Lets bring Millen and Mariucci in too! freak this front office.

[Mongo3451]

There is a lot of speculative thinking in this post. A lot of "I think" and "Tice amd Martz seem..." say you not only don't know exactly how things are going to go you HOPE they do. Two things you said; "He took an ultra-talented team...and turned it into a steaming pile" which year are you referencing? The year they went to the Super Bowl or ??? That year would contradict you statemen. The second; "He (Martz) single handedly cost the Rams a SuperBowl..." Which Super Bowl was it? He did make it to two while coaching with the Rams after all. And his overall record as an HC is 56-36 (per Wikipedia) which in myh book is not a losing trend.

Speculation and debate is what we are here for. He stated his opinion and I stated mine. I think we all hope for the best. The ultra talented team Lovie ruined was after the superbowl year. The superbowl Martz ruined was against the Pats. Remember he failed to run the ball when the Pats were daring them too. You can't spit out how great his record was because that team was handed to him on a silver platter. Look at what he has done since and you will see the real Mike Martz.

 

As far as the Defensive side. Most here would agree that the Defense improved in the last two games of the season. Especially in that game against Minnesota. The Defense played inspired and seemed pretty happy when they sacked Favre, or caused Peterson to fumble. And this was despite 4-5 of their starters not being in the game. What was that again about "undeveloped talent"?. Now if the trend continues and someone like Marinelli is running the "D" with his "sis boom bah" type of coaching, who knows? They could end up being pretty darn good.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the defense.

 

I believe that Pix was being speculative too about how things are going to be in the coming year. But at least it's positive speculation. I have to agree that if your are so dissatisfied with the direction of this team and want to follow another team until the Bears rise to prominence once again, then please enjoy watching your new team. My money's on the Bears making it back to the playoffs in the next season. See you then.

Grizz, you got the wrong guy here. I will never stop being a Bears 1st fan. You have not or will ever hear me talk like that. Am I dissatisfied? Hell yeah. Disloyal? Never. I'm glad you think the Bears are a playoff team this year. I just don't see it.

 

[bowlingtwig]

Speculation and debate is what we are here for. He stated his opinion and I stated mine. I think we all hope for the best. The ultra talented team Lovie ruined was after the superbowl year. The superbowl Martz ruined was against the Pats. Remember he failed to run the ball when the Pats were daring them too. You can't spit out how great his record was because that team was handed to him on a silver platter. Look at what he has done since and you will see the real Mike Martz.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the defense.

 

 

Grizz, you got the wrong guy here. I will never stop being a Bears 1st fan. You have not or will ever hear me talk like that. Am I dissatisfied? Hell yeah. Disloyal? Never. I'm glad you think the Bears are a playoff team this year. I just don't see it.

Who are you trying to kid. Martz built that offense and helped develop players. Warner never started a game prior to Martz. In fact he was a 3rd string guy in '98 backing up Tony Banks and Steve Bono, and was the 2nd stringer in '99 behind Trent Green, but of course we know what happened and Green went down in preseason and the rest is history. Martz helped develop Torry Holt who was a rookie in '99. Issac Bruce had already proven himself prior to him arriving, making a couple of pro bowls and being rookie of year and setting records before him. Faulk came over in '99 in a trade with the colts because of character issues and the Colts Bill Polian did not want to deal with it. Martz turned that offense from 27th over to 1st in his 1st year. Matter of fact the worst his offense was ranked when he was there was 13th. I know what has happened since the Rams and won't argue those points. Don't sit there and say the team was handed to him on a silver platter when he was 1 of the people that helped build the team. A coach that was handed a team on a silver platter was Mike Tomlin.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Who are you trying to kid. Martz built that offense and helped develop players. Warner never started a game prior to Martz. In fact he was a 3rd string guy in '98 backing up Tony Banks and Steve Bono, and was the 2nd stringer in '99 behind Trent Green, but of course we know what happened and Green went down in preseason and the rest is history. Martz helped develop Torry Holt who was a rookie in '99. Issac Bruce had already proven himself prior to him arriving, making a couple of pro bowls and being rookie of year and setting records before him. Faulk came over in '99 in a trade with the colts because of character issues and the Colts Bill Polian did not want to deal with it. Martz turned that offense from 27th over to 1st in his 1st year. Matter of fact the worst his offense was ranked when he was there was 13th. I know what has happened since the Rams and won't argue those points. Don't sit there and say the team was handed to him on a silver platter when he was 1 of the people that helped build the team. A coach that was handed a team on a silver platter was Mike Tomlin.

 

Well said sir.

 

Further it was said that Lovie destroyed a Super Bowl team. Tell me again how the team got there in the first place? Was that team handed to him on a "silver platter"?

[Mongo3451]

Who are you trying to kid. Martz built that offense and helped develop players. Warner never started a game prior to Martz. In fact he was a 3rd string guy in '98 backing up Tony Banks and Steve Bono, and was the 2nd stringer in '99 behind Trent Green, but of course we know what happened and Green went down in preseason and the rest is history. Martz helped develop Torry Holt who was a rookie in '99. Issac Bruce had already proven himself prior to him arriving, making a couple of pro bowls and being rookie of year and setting records before him. Faulk came over in '99 in a trade with the colts because of character issues and the Colts Bill Polian did not want to deal with it. Martz turned that offense from 27th over to 1st in his 1st year. Matter of fact the worst his offense was ranked when he was there was 13th. I know what has happened since the Rams and won't argue those points. Don't sit there and say the team was handed to him on a silver platter when he was 1 of the people that helped build the team. A coach that was handed a team on a silver platter was Mike Tomlin.

He had nothing to do with building that team. That's like saying Turner was responsible for bringing in Cutler. Dick Vermeil built that team giving Martz a perfect combination of components. Silver platter! Keep drinking the aid on this one, but my stance does not change on Martz. If you know me, I love to be proven wrong and pray it is this year. I've just seen too much of Martz to have confidence in him. Anyway, how does this guy go jobless for the last couple of years if he is so good? I guess we were the only ones smart enough to figure it out... Like so many other items.

 

Regarding Lovie, his accomplishments are outweighed by his failures. He did ruin our SB team. If he didn't, what are your reasons for the window slamming shut so quickly?

[Pixote]

He had nothing to do with building that team. That's like saying Turner was responsible for bringing in Cutler. Dick Vermeil built that team giving Martz a perfect combination of components. Silver platter! Keep drinking the aid on this one, but my stance does not change on Martz. If you know me, I love to be proven wrong and pray it is this year. I've just seen too much of Martz to have confidence in him. Anyway, how does this guy go jobless for the last couple of years if he is so good? I guess we were the only ones smart enough to figure it out... Like so many other items.

 

Regarding Lovie, his accomplishments are outweighed by his failures. He did ruin our SB team. If he didn't, what are your reasons for the window slamming shut so quickly?

 

So from what you are saying the OC is useless baggage, if given the right personnel, it will click and be successful no matter who the OC is. No need to develop that talent. No need to develop a playbook, teach it, implement it, call plays during the game, make game time adjustments, etc...

 

Hell, from what you are saying they could have brought in Lovie's son as OC in STL and they would have done just as good, would have still been the "greatest show on turf" because he would have had it handed to him on a silver platter.

 

Hogwash!

[Mongo3451]

So from what you are saying the OC is useless baggage, if given the right personnel, it will click and be successful no matter who the OC is. No need to develop that talent. No need to develop a playbook, teach it, implement it, call plays during the game, make game time adjustments, etc...

 

Hell, from what you are saying they could have brought in Lovie's son as OC in STL and they would have done just as good, would have still been the "greatest show on turf" because he would have had it handed to him on a silver platter.

 

Hogwash!

All I am giving him credit for is running the offense. He didn't build the personnel. He was a huge part of something great. The greatness has been gone awhile and he had the ability to keep it going and couldn't. And he hasn't done anything since. As I stated earlier, I am dying to be wrong about him.

[Pixote]

All I am giving him credit for is running the offense. He didn't build the personnel. He was a huge part of something great. The greatness has been gone awhile and he had the ability to keep it going and couldn't. And he hasn't done anything since. As I stated earlier, I am dying to be wrong about him.

 

He has not done anything since? It has been well documented here on the forum how he improved the offense everywhere he has been since STL. I do not feel like repeating what already has been said.

 

Maybe this team presented on a silver platter in STL would have been the greatest team stuck in mud if he hadn't been the OC?

[defiantgiant]

Here's the reality of the situation. Lovie wanted to hire Fewell however there was no way he would choose the Bears over the Giants. With the Giants he was getting better talent and a chance to run the defense on his own (Couglin's expertise is on offense). He would have been #2 to Lovie here on defense and we all know that.

 

They felt their next best option was Marinelli who Lovie had tried to hire when he was originally hired. I would have preferred they wait to interview Williams but its over so we move on.

 

Peace

I wish they had at least interviewed somebody outside of the organization. This just looks so much like a Lovie Smith yes-man move...hiring "his guy" rather than acknowledging that the last time our defense was good, it was being run by someone he butted heads with from time to time. Mike Nolan was on the open market not too long ago, and his track record as a DC speaks for itself, but the Bears didn't even reach out to him because he's not a Lovie Smith guy. Sure, Nolan likes to run a 3-4, but he's also run 4-3 and hybrid defenses with equal success; he could definitely have adapted his scheme to our personnel. But nope, he's not a Tampa-2 guy. Romeo Crennel was available too, and they didn't make a move...same deal.

 

It's hard to feel good about this move. If it turns out well, it'll be a pleasant surprise, but a surprise nonetheless. Marinelli's never succeeded at a level above position coach. He said himself that his preference was to stick to his strengths and remain d-line coach. And now we're relying on him to turn around a moribund defense by doing what? Running it the exact same way Lovie did for the past two seasons? I'm finding it hard to see how that could work.

[nfoligno]

Here's the reality of the situation. Lovie wanted to hire Fewell however there was no way he would choose the Bears over the Giants. With the Giants he was getting better talent and a chance to run the defense on his own (Couglin's expertise is on offense). He would have been #2 to Lovie here on defense and we all know that.

 

Just want to disagree that it is reality Lovie wanted Fewell. It was reportedly fairly early on that Lovie wanted Marinelli. IMHO, Lovie "wanted" Marinelli and Martz, but like w/ Martz, Angelo wasn't on board, thus Lovie was forced to look elsewhere.

 

They felt their next best option was Marinelli who Lovie had tried to hire when he was originally hired. I would have preferred they wait to interview Williams but its over so we move on.

 

If they felt Marinelli was their next best option, why did it take a month? That it took so long gives the impression that he was a safety net, and a last choice situation, rather than next best option after Fewell.

[nfoligno]

While I would not have been in favor, they would have been better of simply making this move right away.

 

Here is the thing that really makes me sick. Marinelli said he didn't want the job. About a month ago, all the papers had him saying he didn't want the job, and he was happy working on the DL, and didn't feel his job was done there. Hell, just about a week ago, his own agent again said he didn't want the job.

 

So what we have is a DC who didn't want to be the DC. How great of a situation is that?

 

I wish they had at least interviewed somebody outside of the organization. This just looks so much like a Lovie Smith yes-man move...hiring "his guy" rather than acknowledging that the last time our defense was good, it was being run by someone he butted heads with from time to time. Mike Nolan was on the open market not too long ago, and his track record as a DC speaks for itself, but the Bears didn't even reach out to him because he's not a Lovie Smith guy. Sure, Nolan likes to run a 3-4, but he's also run 4-3 and hybrid defenses with equal success; he could definitely have adapted his scheme to our personnel. But nope, he's not a Tampa-2 guy. Romeo Crennel was available too, and they didn't make a move...same deal.

 

It's hard to feel good about this move. If it turns out well, it'll be a pleasant surprise, but a surprise nonetheless. Marinelli's never succeeded at a level above position coach. He said himself that his preference was to stick to his strengths and remain d-line coach. And now we're relying on him to turn around a moribund defense by doing what? Running it the exact same way Lovie did for the past two seasons? I'm finding it hard to see how that could work.

 

[Connorbear]

Here's the reality of the situation. Lovie wanted to hire Fewell however there was no way he would choose the Bears over the Giants. With the Giants he was getting better talent and a chance to run the defense on his own (Couglin's expertise is on offense). He would have been #2 to Lovie here on defense and we all know that.

 

Just want to disagree that it is reality Lovie wanted Fewell. It was reportedly fairly early on that Lovie wanted Marinelli. IMHO, Lovie "wanted" Marinelli and Martz, but like w/ Martz, Angelo wasn't on board, thus Lovie was forced to look elsewhere.

 

They felt their next best option was Marinelli who Lovie had tried to hire when he was originally hired. I would have preferred they wait to interview Williams but its over so we move on.

 

If they felt Marinelli was their next best option, why did it take a month? That it took so long gives the impression that he was a safety net, and a last choice situation, rather than next best option after Fewell.

Angelo said once Fewell turned them down, they decided to concentrate on the offense and worry about the defense after that was complete.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

While I would not have been in favor, they would have been better of simply making this move right away.

 

Here is the thing that really makes me sick. Marinelli said he didn't want the job. About a month ago, all the papers had him saying he didn't want the job, and he was happy working on the DL, and didn't feel his job was done there. Hell, just about a week ago, his own agent again said he didn't want the job.

 

So what we have is a DC who didn't want to be the DC. How great of a situation is that?

Well, if it doesn't work out then Lovie and company are gone at the end of the yr. No need to worry about it now. What's done is done and at least we know its put up or shut up time for the JA and Lovie.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

One, it is pretty sad that our GM is incapable of interviewing candidates for offense and defense at the same time.

 

Two, even if that is true, it would seem to make more sense if we were talking about looking outside for the new DC. Sorry, but if Marinelli was next on the list after Fewell, there is no reason to wait a month to get it done. Even if Angelo is such a weak GM that he truly has to focus on offense, is still just doesn't seem to make that much sense. How difficult could the interview be w/ Marinelli.

 

Angelo said once Fewell turned them down, they decided to concentrate on the offense and worry about the defense after that was complete.

 

Peace

 

[Mongo3451]

One, it is pretty sad that our GM is incapable of interviewing candidates for offense and defense at the same time.

 

Two, even if that is true, it would seem to make more sense if we were talking about looking outside for the new DC. Sorry, but if Marinelli was next on the list after Fewell, there is no reason to wait a month to get it done. Even if Angelo is such a weak GM that he truly has to focus on offense, is still just doesn't seem to make that much sense. How difficult could the interview be w/ Marinelli.

"Hey Rod, we can't find anyone to take the DC position. We really need for you to be a team player and take the position." It was probably something like that. Rod's probably thinking his career is over now. LOL

[madlithuanian]

Urlacher and Brown were handed to him...and they were huge reasons they went to the SB.

 

Well said sir.

 

Further it was said that Lovie destroyed a Super Bowl team. Tell me again how the team got there in the first place? Was that team handed to him on a "silver platter"?

 

[madlithuanian]

BINGO!

 

While I would not have been in favor, they would have been better of simply making this move right away.

 

Here is the thing that really makes me sick. Marinelli said he didn't want the job. About a month ago, all the papers had him saying he didn't want the job, and he was happy working on the DL, and didn't feel his job was done there. Hell, just about a week ago, his own agent again said he didn't want the job.

 

So what we have is a DC who didn't want to be the DC. How great of a situation is that?

 

[ChileBear]

While I would not have been in favor, they would have been better of simply making this move right away.

 

Here is the thing that really makes me sick. Marinelli said he didn't want the job. About a month ago, all the papers had him saying he didn't want the job, and he was happy working on the DL, and didn't feel his job was done there. Hell, just about a week ago, his own agent again said he didn't want the job.

 

So what we have is a DC who didn't want to be the DC. How great of a situation is that?

I don't recall seeing that Marinellie actually said he didn't want the job. What he sadi was that he was not satisfied with the development of the DL and wanted to work more on them. Yes, it does seem like he was the safety net, but I don't see it as he didn't want to be DC. And he's got his assistant now coaching the DL. To me, it seems more an indictment of Lovie and JA in the DC search process than Marinelli's supposed aversion to being DC.

[AZ54]

Riddle me this: If this is such a great hire as DC why is everyone so quiet about it?

 

On the Bears website they have lots of video showing Martz talking about being the new OC, Smith on Martz, JA on Martz. yet there's just one article going over the Marinelli promotion and that article has just a single quote (it's not even an interview) from Marinelli:

 

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=6534

“I’m very excited,” Marinelli said. “The defensive staff has all worked together, so it’s just a chance to keep going and build on the subtleties of our system. We’ve all been in it together and I think the familiarity will help.”

 

Why isn't there more info on this promotion? I know Marinelli not the type to seek publicity but you'd think the Bears would be doing more to hype this change. So far we have very little outside of Lovie saying this is the guy he wanted as DC in the first place. I haven't even heard of player coming forward saying they were glad to see Rod get promoted. I know it's the offseason and yada yada but don't you think some reporters ran into our players down at the Superbowl last week?

 

This wasn't what I was looking for as our new DC but it would be nice to see something positive about this somewhere.

[nfoligno]

Honestly, I think it is a situation that is hard to really spin that positive, and thus they are trying to instead gloss over it. Insert it i while all the Martz hoopla is going on.

 

Is it possible that:

 

-Marinelli was near the top of their list all along, both Lovie and Angelo's.

-After Fewell, they really never considered anyone else to be better than Marinelli and really did simply want to focus on offense

-All the talk of Marinelli not wanting to be the DC was just that, talk. His comments came when the team was supposedly looking at Fewell, and he didn't want to rock the boat. After Fewell was out of the picture, he made it known he was ready for the jump.

 

All this is possible, and may in fact be reality. Problem is, perception is so different from this, and I really don't know the team can say anything to change that perception. Percpetion is they wanted Fewell, and struck out. They looked outside the organization, but found little or no one interested who (a) fit Lovie's litmus test and ( would go over any better with fans. So they convinced Marinelli to take a job he didn't want. Whether that is reality is for higher powers to know, but I would argue that is the perception, and little the team says is likely to change that.

 

So, they are instead trying to hype the Martz story. Even though Martz too would seem a fall back option, he has a resume that can much better create hype.

 

Riddle me this: If this is such a great hire as DC why is everyone so quiet about it?

 

On the Bears website they have lots of video showing Martz talking about being the new OC, Smith on Martz, JA on Martz. yet there's just one article going over the Marinelli promotion and that article has just a single quote (it's not even an interview) from Marinelli:

 

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=6534

“I’m very excited,” Marinelli said. “The defensive staff has all worked together, so it’s just a chance to keep going and build on the subtleties of our system. We’ve all been in it together and I think the familiarity will help.”

 

Why isn't there more info on this promotion? I know Marinelli not the type to seek publicity but you'd think the Bears would be doing more to hype this change. So far we have very little outside of Lovie saying this is the guy he wanted as DC in the first place. I haven't even heard of player coming forward saying they were glad to see Rod get promoted. I know it's the offseason and yada yada but don't you think some reporters ran into our players down at the Superbowl last week?

 

This wasn't what I was looking for as our new DC but it would be nice to see something positive about this somewhere.

 

[AZ54]

I suppose all those things are possible but it would still be nice to hear something from Marinelli about what we need to change to get better. I know all he'll say is we just need to get to work because that's his style. Look at all the hype Martz generated in one day.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Urlacher and Brown were handed to him...and they were huge reasons they went to the SB.

 

Not the only reasons. I believe there were players like T. Jones, Hester, Briggs, Mark Anderson and his breakout rookie year*, Bernard Berrian, Tank Johnson, Chris Harris (Tillman and Vasher and their respective Pro Bowl years). Some of these players were not "hand-me downs" but instead players that were drafted or traded for during Lovie's tenure. However again, all these players contributed in many ways more than just the two players you pointed out.

 

 

You remember the promises that Lovie made when he was hired right?

 

Beat Green Bay - check

Win the Division - check

Go to the Super Bowl - check

 

And he is the third winning-est coach in Bears history after "Papa" Bear Halas and Ditka. Pretty good in my book.

 

* - from Wikipedia

[madlithuanian]

I was speaking of defense...and the rest of the D lokked so freaking good chiefly because of Brown and Urlacher's heroics with a little help from a once healthy T. Harris. Once Brown went down, you'll notice a slide in effectiveness... Without those 2, the rest of those conributors don't do so much. You think Horance Grant and Bill Cartwright could have won w/o MJ and Pip?

 

Did he really just say "go" to the SB, not "win" the SB? My recollection may be off, but I thought he said "win". Regardless, that should have been the statment. idon't want to just go an lose, I want to win.

 

Pretty good is just that...unfortunately, not good enough. And the trend right now is hideous. If it were going in the opposite direction of starting bad and looking good for the past 3 season I'd feel differently.

 

Not the only reasons. I believe there were players like T. Jones, Hester, Briggs, Mark Anderson and his breakout rookie year*, Bernard Berrian, Tank Johnson, Chris Harris (Tillman and Vasher and their respective Pro Bowl years). Some of these players were not "hand-me downs" but instead players that were drafted or traded for during Lovie's tenure. However again, all these players contributed in many ways more than just the two players you pointed out.

 

 

You remember the promises that Lovie made when he was hired right?

 

Beat Green Bay - check

Win the Division - check

Go to the Super Bowl - check

 

And he is the third winning-est coach in Bears history after "Papa" Bear Halas and Ditka. Pretty good in my book.

 

* - from Wikipedia

 

[nfoligno]

Problem for Lovie, in regard to an discussion like this one, is the Rivera factor. Rivera, not Lovie, ran that defense. No question Lovie was invovled, but at the same time, I have never heard any question that it was Rivera making the game day playcalls.

 

Since Rivera was allowed to walk (pushed out the door) this defense has stunk. Just for the record, along w/ Rivera, I would add Don Johnson (DL) was replaced that year. Similar, our DL has not been good since.

 

So is it fair to ask how much of that D was Lovie and how much was Rivera. Well, I would say it is a fair question since Lovie decided to replace Rivera w/ his BFF, and that didn't workout.

 

Going back to that SB season, I felt (and said) we were winng despite Lovie more than due to him. Frankly, I felt he held back our defense, players and coaches.

 

I was speaking of defense...and the rest of the D lokked so freaking good chiefly because of Brown and Urlacher's heroics with a little help from a once healthy T. Harris. Once Brown went down, you'll notice a slide in effectiveness... Without those 2, the rest of those conributors don't do so much. You think Horance Grant and Bill Cartwright could have won w/o MJ and Pip?

 

Did he really just say "go" to the SB, not "win" the SB? My recollection may be off, but I thought he said "win". Regardless, that should have been the statment. idon't want to just go an lose, I want to win.

 

Pretty good is just that...unfortunately, not good enough. And the trend right now is hideous. If it were going in the opposite direction of starting bad and looking good for the past 3 season I'd feel differently.

 

['TD']

Going back to that SB season, I felt (and said) we were winng despite Lovie more than due to him. Frankly, I felt he held back our defense, players and coaches.

Right before the defense started slacking, near the end of the season, Hub Arkush was reporting Lovie was taking a much bigger roll in the defense. That's why I always attributed the defenses success to Rivera prior to failures of both Babich and Lovie taking their turns at running the defense, into the ground.