BearFan PHX

well, pass rushers in the 3-4 can come from anywhere, but in a base defense, no matter what alignment you're using, you're rushing four players. We're so used to the 4-3 alignment, we think of two edge rushers, meaning each defensive end. But in a 3-4 base defense, you're going to be rushing your three linemen, and one linebacker. One thing about the 3-4 is you can mix up which linebacker youre going to bring. But usually, you have a best pass rushing OLB, and that's the guy you're going to send most of the time. For us, that's Floyd. And the pass rusher on the other edge of the 4 man rush is... Hicks! You wouldn't take two pass rushing specialists at OLB. I mean, you wouldnt pay the going rate for an all pro pass rushing OLB on both sides. Because unless you're blitzing, you're using one of those guys to do something else rather than rush the passer. And if you're paying him like an edge rusher, and asking him to cover, which might not even be his strength, then you're wasting that value. So if the Bears were going to bolster the pass rush on 3-4 base sets, they'd have looked for another DE, maybe Vita Vea, who I think would be amazing for us too. A good part of the time, especially in situations where we need a pass rush, we're going to be in nickel. That's a four man line. Floyd and Hicks will be the toughest players to block. A pass rushing specialist who puts his hand on the ground is the player to add in those sets. Again, more of a DE type than an OLB type tho. A little bigger, and stronger? So Lorenzo Carter, maybe, but not Harold Landry?

oooh GOOD comment!!

that would be great.

well we couldnt have missed on that price, wed have had to be cheaper than TB, else theyd just choose the higher pick for the same price

probably they were speaking to both, but you make a good point. If we had dropped down to tampas price, theyd still take TBs offer over ours.

or as cheap as they can go, and maybe Pace was holding out for the other 1st.

seems so. I am glad they had their choice of both and I have to trust their pick. Go Roquan!

buffalo traded to TB, so we will have our pick of LBs

if we keep the pick TB may be making the Edmunds / Smith decision for us LOL

ha we may be drafting Vea or Ridley and an extra pick!

yes if only a few spots, buffalo?

hmm maybe nelson goes to indi, and the QBs are dropping

yup, or if one QB goes and both Nelson and Chubb go, we have trade offers

Big surprises from Cleveland taking Mayfield and Ward Nelson falling.

is there a chat room?

Im feeling the same way this year. Lot's of good defensive playmakers will be available to choose from no matter what happens.

yup, I just posted the other list too, so I guess all it proves is that people who oughtta know, disagree

and to be fair to the Roquan Smith crowd, Mike Mayock has them ordered differently in his top 20, on thre same NFL.com site. LOL who knows? 1. Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State 2. Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame 3. Bradley Chubb, DE, N.C. State 4. Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia 5. Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama 6. Derwin James, S, Florida State 7. Sam Darnold, QB, USC 8. Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame 9. Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming 10. Vita Vea, DT, Washington 11. Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech 12. Jaire Alexander, CB, Louisville 13. Rashaan Evans, LB, Alabama 14. Marcus Davenport, DE, UTSA 15. Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State 16. Da'Ron Payne, DT, Alabama 17. James Daniels, C, Iowa 18. Harold Landry, DE, Boston College 19. Frank Ragnow, C, Arkansas 20. Leighton Vander Esch, LB, Boise State

So NFL.com has player rankings and gives each player a specific value. Their scale is 9.00-10 Once-in-lifetime player 8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro 7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro 7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber player 6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-caliber player 6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter etc These are their rankings of who the player is TODAY. So only five players in the draft are in the 7s, but there are players in the league who are int he 8s, and maybe even a 9 or two. (even though thats mathematically impossible LOL) Anyway, they have these players as the top 17... RB Saquon Barkley 7.45 OG Quentin Nelson 7.34 DE Bradley Chubb 7.32 LB Tremaine Edmunds 7.17 QB Sam Darnold 7.00 WR Calvin Ridley 6.83 LB Roquan Smith 6.74 DL Vita Vea 6.50 DL Da'Ron Payne 6.50 DB Derwin James 6.44 RB Derrius Guice 6.41 DL Taven Bryan 6.45 DB Denzel Ward 6.31 LB Leighton Vander Esch 6.25 QB Josh Rosen 6.19 DB Minkah Fitzpatrick 6.19 DL Harold Landry 6.15 That's a lot of love for Nelson and Edmunds, and an answer to those who say Edmunds needs a red shirt year more than any normal rookie.

I think you're right. I think at #8 Pace could take the 3rd or 4th best option in any of our minds, and we'd still get a damned good player that can help us. He may surprise us and pick Vita Vae or a WR. But I think it'll be Nelson or a defender. And everyone already knows who I hope it is. But would I hold Minkah Fitzpatrick responsible for not being on my short list? Nope. I'd start rooting for him right away.

I think the difference in Edmunds being not ready and Smith being plug and play are overstated. I see film where Smith struggles with blocks, and I see a lot of productivity from Edmunds. I think that for each player, they list pros and cons, and if you read that relative to everyone else, it can almost seem like every player is about equal in that they both have pluses and minuses. They say Edmunds is young and needs to grow. That might be another way of saying his ceiling is SO much higher that he will grow into a hall of famer. That doesnt mean that he is inherently less ready for the NFL than Smith. If you believe in your coaches, you take Edmunds. If you're a Jerry Angelo play it safe floor guy, you take Smith. Also, this is not a year in the "open window" so hitting the ground running this year is less important than securing the best player for 2019 and beyond. I truly believe that Edmunds will be a force in the NFL. If you watch his tape, his tackiling is ALWAYS heads up - he envelops ball carriers, he has tremendous speed and can cover in man like a safety. His hips are incredibly fluid and his wingspan - he just eats up ball carriers. If you havent seen him on tape, watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_alNNzT1n0

I think this is a good possibility

right on. Im with you.

Great exercise! I purposely didn't cheat, and I still picked Edmunds. Well done. I'd like to point something out to those who want another OLB edge rusher. You only bring one of them in a base defense, the other does coverage. If both OLB rush the passer in a 3-4 alignment, that's a blitz. I can't imagine people think we ought to be blitzing on every down. Having two OLB edge rushers doesn't make a lot of sense. You'd always be putting one into coverage. If on the other hand, you want to drop floyd sometimes, and bring pressure from another angle, there's no reason that it can't come from the ILB position. In fact, that's even tougher to diagnose. I just want to repeat it again - you don't rush two edge rushing OLB unless you're blitzing. And if you're blitzing, the 5th man doesnt have to come from the OLB position at all. Also, you'd be wasting the edge rusher's skills if you had him (or Floyd) in coverage on most downs anyway. If you want another base defense pass rusher, make it a 3-4DE. If you want a blitzing change of pace linebacker, it can be in the middle too, and make it someone who has coverage skills too. That's why I like Edmunds.

my guy - Tremaine Edmunds my likes - Nelson, Ward, Vae hate - McGlinchey