BearFan PHX

sorry, youre totally right. I wasnt fully awake yet. Of course he didnt match yet, youre correct. I was speaking down that scenario in the wrong verb tense. I expect Pace will sign it, but who knows. If it's too rich, then we're looking for another Free Agent, part of the reason I think we'd resign Meredith is that otherwise, you gotta be looking at a draft pick for a receiver in the first 4 rounds, and we might want to be looking at OL and defense there. But you're right, Pace hasn't declared either way yet! Ill go edit what I wrote.

I don't think you can say that Pace misjudged the market. We don't know for example, what Meredith's agent was looking for. Probably a 4 year deal tho, and if Pace didn't want to do that, then this was an excellent move that worked out, and gives us the 2 year option to accept or not. We also can't assume that the tender offer was equivalent to what he had on the table in terms of a long term deal. Only that Meredith's agent thought he might do better elsewhere. If Pace was offering a 2 year 3.5 Million a year deal, for example, then this move brings that up to market value, and if Pace thinks it exceeds market value, then he can either eat a little more cap room, or not sign him and lose him to the Saints. All we really know is that in offering the tender, Pace said "I will pay you 2.9 million for one year OR you can test the market and I have the right to match." And he did, and the number is now known. The best offer on the open market was 2 years for $10 Million. Then Pace has the option to match or not. So it stands to reason that as a fair market price, maybe Pace would have accepted the price in the first place too, so maybe it was Meredith's agent who priced his client above the market. Or maybe a combination. All I'm really saying is that it didn't cost us whatever we pay in advance of 2.9 Mil, because we may have been offering more than that, and we didn't have the option to lock that in, if the agent knew shopping would increase the price. Anyway, that's how these tags work, they allow players to see what the greatest interest is from other teams in a real way, in that the team making the highest bid has to commit to it if the team that tagged him doesnt match, so it's a REAL offer, and then the team that tagged him, can match or not. Given that the agent has a decent idea of what the player might be worth on the open market when the negotiations begin for a long term deal before the tag, it's hard to see how anyone can really misjudge the market here, and even harder to see how anyone could get tricked into overpaying. I mean if the deal was too high, Pace doesn't have to match it. Basically the tag is a way for the GM to say to the player "youre asking for unreasonably high things, go prove it in the market" and for the player to say to the GM "youre asking for unreasonably low things, go prove it in the market" so when the tag gets used, it pretty much opens an auction that sets the fairest market price. You really can't get screwed this way, especially because you can just let the player go if the other team overpays. The only way to get screwed is if you let your cap situation get unmanageable, and another team beats you to a player not on more money on the life of the deal, but just with some trick of how it's structured that you cant accommodate on your cap. That's the only way to get beat in this thing.

exactly. Uprgrading Howard isn't worth our first round pick. Not when we can upgrade other positions that really need it, like the defensive front 7 and the Offensive Line. We still need OLB, ILB, DE, OG and OT.

Bruce Arians says he is a terrific athlete, great on kick coverages, and can catch, so he might be a chess piece at FB or TE too in heavy sets, and tackle eligible situations. But he probably really helps the special teams. http://www.azcardinals.com/videos/videos/Bruce-Arians-wants-Earl-Watford-to-play-tight-end/dc25ada6-e67d-418c-8a34-4a1cfc2567ba

That's about as low as you can pay a veteran in terms of the guarantee, and if he starts a certain number of games, and reaches his goals (assuming they arent super easy to reach) then 2 million isnt so bad either. Gives Hiestand someone to work with, and the flexibility to go defense in the first round. I'll bet we sign a similar DE soon.

Yeah, I could see that for sure, but I also think there's a good chance one of the two picks will be on OL too. I think at least three of our first four picks will go to OL and defensive front 7. But what do I know about what Fangio thinks about Minkah Fitzpatrick, or what Hiestand thinks about Eric Kush? Still, I bet we take D front and OL early and often

I don't see Edmunds as an OLB, I see him as an ILB, and an impact player on defense that could make the defense special for years. His speed and coverage abilities and sure tackling makes him possibly a better Urlacher than Urlacher was. The problem with identifying a position of need and then discussing who to fill it with is that you neutralize the value of impact players at less traditional positions. Most GMs talk about best player available, even though they do figure positions of need as well. But when you say OLB, you might really mean "impact player on the defensive front 7." For example if you only identify pass rush as coming from OLB and DE, you'd miss valuing Warren Sapp.

So I'd say, whatever you do, Arden Key is not a good pick for the 2nd round because of his attitude issues. I have pretty much removed him and Orlando Brown from my draft list until at least the 3rd or 4th round. And seeing as how we have no 3rd rounder, until the 4th I guess. ALso if Billy Price is there in the 2nd, he'd be a great choice if you didn't take Nelson in the 1st. My preference is Edmunds in round 1, and either an Edge/DE or OL in the 2nd. Edmunds / Price would be fantastic. So would Edmunds / Miller, Wynn, McGlinchey, Jones, Williams, Rankin, Ragnow, O'Neill, Crosby etc. There will be a bunch of quality OL in the 2nd, and Hiestand should know who the winners are. He'll also give us the best possible intel on Nelson too. And if there is another true impact defender in the 2nd round, that's cool too. But my money is on Edmunds and an OL going 1st and second.

I think you have it right. DE is a need. I also think we will add someone to the OL in free agency. And possibly a depth WR.

Just had this 4 round simulated mock, as an example. 8: R1P8 LB TREMAINE EDMUNDS VIRGINIA TECH 39: R2P7 G BILLY PRICE OHIO ST. 105: R4P5 OT TYRELL CROSBY OREGON 115: R4P15 C FRANK RAGNOW ARKANSAS

A couple of points. Decent OL are more easily found int he 2nd round than impact defensive players. Also, impact ILB are RARE. The reason Edmunds could be such a difference maker is that you put a difference maker like him on the field and you can STILL put players in 2 OLB positions and on the defensive line. In other words, over time as you fill out your team, Edmunds allows you to create a defense that's got extra dimension. Nelson is a stud, there is no doubt. But he won't take over a game in the NFL the way that Edmunds will be able to. Also, the idea that Edmunds won't contribute right away is wrong too. He needs to learn some patience, so he will be fooled at some points, but it's not as if he needs a year int he weight room or anything. Physically, he is ready to go out of the box. Seriously, imagine passing on Ray Lewis because he isn't a pass rusher.

I like that this is a no trade mock. I still think Edmunds is the next great Chicago ILB. I think he is such a freak at that position, that you kinda gotta take him. You can find pass rushers that play OLB along the way, maybe next year, and when you pair them with Edmunds, then you have something crazy special. But Fangio will know what he wants best. I agree the first pick should go to Defense. Then, the next 2 picks (the 2nd rounder and one of the 4ths) should go to OL, so I like your pick there. Id be OK with Orlando Brown in the 4th, but NOT in the 2nd, his talent deserves it but hes a head case. The second 4th rounder can go almost anywhere, OLB, DE, ILB (if they dont take Edmunds), WR, CB, S who knows. So I guess I agree with what you're thinking, but mine looks a little different 1 Edmunds 2 Billy Price OG 4 some OT 4 some pass rusher or DE

I don't think Edmunds would last. Some mocks even have him going ahead of us. Have you seen his film? I gotta say tho, I'm loving the vibe around here this week. Seems like we are debating and disagreeing, all respectfully and there's no crap. Is it the new color scheme?

cool, but Edmunds will be primarily an ILB. ANd that seems crazy until you see his film. The guy is something else. A real difference maker you can surround with other players at traditional positions like OLB and DE that can put you over the top from well rounded to scary.

no doubt they need more than Edmunds. They'll need another pash rusher. It'd be great if it was a DE too. But Rome wasn't built in a day, and in all likelihood, we will go into this season missing at least one more impact player on defense. I do believe if we take Edmunds in the first that we will go OL in the second and then D front 7 and maybe another OL with our first two picks of the 4th. Whatever happens, those are our needs, and we're gonna come up at least one short it seems, unless Pace hits on both 4th rounders. That was the conclusion I came to when I wrote the "Bears have many holes" thread - seems we are in agreement.

that's for sure.

I dont think they will play Edmunds on the edge. I think he will play ILB. People assume pass rusher is the most important player on the field, but actually impact player is. USUALLY that's a pass rusher. But you can't say, for example, that if Ed Reed was there, that we shouldn't take him. Edmunds has freakish size and speed. Imagine having Urlacher in his prime shutting down the middle of the field, but only when you happen to choose to play zone, not predictably. Now imagine he can take any TE or slot WR in man coverage. Further, he is a spy on running QBs, and yes he can rush the passer from the ILB too. When you say he would be like a mini safety, yes exactly. He would be a chess piece that Fangio could use to do all sorts of things with. I know ILB isnt a sexy position, but Edmunds is a rare athlete. Have you seen the film on the guy? I've never seen a better tackler ever. He doesnt come at people from angles, his head is always right on their belt buckle and his arms just envelop people. In this defense, he could be a true difference maker. I don't take Nelson lightly at OG, he's amazing. But I think Edmunds is even more special.

I think they will probably pick up 2 OL players in the draft among our first 4 picks. I wouldn't be shocked to see us go defense in Round 1, OL in round 2, and another OL as one of our 4th round picks. Given we have Hiestand, we might pick a low pick OL toy for him to coach up too.

Maybe. While I agree that Nelson is plug and play and Edmunds will take a minute to develop, I'm not sure that you can't get better OL later in the draft than playmaking defenders. Either will upgrade our team a lot.

So the Bears have re-signed CB Marcus Cooper and long snapper Patrick Scales. I think we will probably see 2 OL and at least one pick on the defensive front seven in our first four picks. We could use another body at safety and WR, but the front seven and the OL are the obvious places that still need upgrades. I wouldn't be shocked to see us take 3 OL if you include the 5th round or later.

When I've seen Equanimeous St Brown available in the 4th on these mock simulators, Ive taken him. He wont be there of course. I don't disagree about the WRs, but by the time you get to the 4th, there's no one I really want, and I love the idea of 2 x OL and an impact first rounder on D. If we get Edmunds, and a good OL with 1 and 2, that'd be great. If theres another OL available in the 4th worth having, or a DE, so much the better.

And here is with no trades... R1 P8 Tremaine Edmunds ILB R2 P7 Billy Price C/OG R4 P5 Orlando Brown OT (again willing to take a flyer on a top talent with issues with a later pick) R4 P15 Isaac Yiadom CB R5 P8 Kyzir White S R6 P7 Hercules Mataafa OLB/Edge R7 P6 Eddy Pineiro K This would also be a great draft.

I don't think the game is very realistic, but it's fun! I traded from 8 to 11 with Miami, and again from 11 to 13 with Washington, picking up a 2nd round pick each time. R1 P13 Tremaine Edmunds ILB R2 P7 Billy Price OG R2 P10 Tyrell Crosby OT R2 P12 Arden Key DE (with three 2nd rounders, I was willing to take a chance on his character) R4 P5 Isaac Yiadom CB R4 P15 Kyzir White S R5 P8 Will Clapp C/OG R6 P7 Auden Tate WR R7 P6 John Atkins DT That would be beyond incredible.

I don't disagree, but imagine where we will be after the 2019 draft... I still want Edmunds, even if Nelson is there. And then a OG or OT in the 2nd.

QUOTE (Mongo3451 @ Mar 26 2018, 08:29 PM) Truly we have holes to fill, but I believe we have less than you think. Looking at what we picked up will help Trubisky, Trubisky will help the OL. Plus, the OL will have a healthy Long and a years growth for the younger guys. Greater TOP instantly helps the D. Scoring more points helps on a belll curve. If we can hit on White and Merideth the offense is looking great. I'm expecting a heavy defensive draft with an OL pick. If we hit on a couple of defenders, we are competing. Please pardon any typos. I can barely see on this phone. I do think we have crossed over the threshold where we might win more games than we lose, or are right at 8-8. We are definitely getting better. But I'm just saying we will still have some holes. Not saying they will be fatal. Leno and Massie might be serviceable for example, but I'd still call them holes in the sense that they arent a positive force at their positions, just holding the fort down. I think that's where we are on OG, OT x 2, OC, DE, OLB, ILB, S and possibly CB. 2-3 players will get drafted to fill those holes at the level I'm speaking of, but we have 4 holes at least, so I think we won't be fully complete.