BearFan PHX

I think we may be looking to trade for a DE, maybe the guy from the Bengals who just asked for a trade?

LOL no, you just seemed to say something that wasnt correct, and when I point it out, you say it's because I am all against Justin and all for Caleb. You said I "dont allow" other opinions. Nah bro, Im just saying youre wrong. That's my opinion. When youre wrong its not because someone sees things in absolutes, or anything like that - youre just wrong. The problem here isnt in my way of viewing things, it's that youve digested a false media narrative that i just proved wasnt true with facts on tape. Watch it and then tell me Caleb cant play in structure and tempo.

nah, its got nothing to do with a character flaw on my part LOL thats an old gambit thats WAY played out here. My opinion and what I see on film is not some attitude problem with me. It's just the truth. Fields held the ball too long routinely. He was indecisive. He had a problem pulling the trigger on open receivers, and it wasnt because he was big play hunting. Caleb was big play hunting - VERY different, and there are over 100 examples of him getting the ball out in rhythm in that video I just posted. So it's not at all the same thing. Caleb can play in structure and tempo and proves it routinely. Fields didnt. So yeah, there are lots of things Caleb has to grow on - like holding the ball dangerously away from his body, and taking what the defense gives you., But he is not indecisive or afraid to pull the trigger. Watch the film I posted, there are 100 examples.

So I love me some Tyson Bagent. Coming off the bench and in preseason, he had that quick decisive release that I had been wishing for all the time while Fields was in there. It was a breath of fresh air. Then a couple NFL games in, he threw a bunch of interceptions. We all saw his plusses, but his arm strength was questionable and the interceptions really brought him down to earth. I was left saying "Id love to see more of him, and see if he can improve his arm strength" I thought he was one of the better backups in the league. Now i think he may have some competition. Another d2 guy who led all of college at any level with passing yards in 2022 with like 4,700+ or something insane like that. AND this guy has a really strong arm. Plus hes been working out with Caleb WIlliams with the same guy that trained Brock Purdy. Caleb loves him. There is definitely going to be a QB battle in Chicago this year, but it will be for 2nd string

They truly are building a culture, while seemingly not losing out on any talent doing it.

thats what I see too. Plus, holding the ball because you are big play hunting because your defense is awful and you need to be scoring 40 to win, is a different kind of "holds the ball too long" than being indecisive and gun shy. And Caleb is not either of those things.

I totally agree. I'm sure to your point that these guys get more data points than they need. On one hand you might uncover hidden problems, but on the other hand you may become overwhelmed with data and get swayed by something that isnt going to have any real impact. Im sure all the scouts are very close to all the small details, and Poles has to have the large view and put it all into context. he seems to have made a lot of wise moves, and it looks like it's starting to pay off too!

finding those hidden gems is definitely a place where your scouting shines, where they can really help the team. and while youre right that Odunze is a no brainer pick, youd want to be sure from your scouting that for example Dallas Turner isn't the next NFL sack leader, or Fashanu isn't about to set the league on fire too. I agree that even with my layman eyes I could see the difference, but even sure things go through a ton of vetting because that bust percentage is so high. But I feel really good about all these guys too, and some of the unsigned rookie free agents are intriguing as well.

thats what i see too. And even when he does hold the ball hunting big plays, hes always looking downfield, again unlike Fields. Im not here to diss on Fields now that he's gone, but I think we keep putting the criticisms of Fields on Caleb for some reason, and they arent true.

Bullshit. Thats a ridiculous narrative from the media. I just posted a video with over 100 examples of Caleb playing in structure and not holding the ball.

Here's 20 minutes of Caleb making big plays in structure and getting the ball out fast. His throwing motion is insane too. But mostly you see him having elite pocket presence and reading and manipulating defenses. This oughtta bust some of the media narratives about always holding the ball too long. This is a fantastic prospect we are getting. The Oklahoma stuff int he first few minutes is good, but the USC stuff is crazy good.

I guess we mostly agree, I just think Caleb reads a defense better than any. McCarthy is probably second in that. But I don't think he has generational arm talent per se, I think it's his QBs brain, character, maturity and desire to win that's generational. He does make really great off platform throws, but I think it's his "quarterbacking" that's elite?

yeah when you have a good roster, the holes are easy to see. This is all the effect of having tanked the 2021 year. We bought our freedom from football purgatory with that move.

Jenkins is one of our best linemen, but he's missed a lot of games. I dunno how you can trust that, even though he may make it through this season without any. My guess is that Poles is not going to pay Jenkins a big contract, but someone will.

Jumping from bad to mediocre is common. Jumping from mediocre to good is difficult. Jumping from good to great is extremely hard to do, and jumping from anywhere to champion, especially more than once, is very difficult for all but the best Offenses / QBs. Sometimes you need to get to that rarified air to realize how much deeper youre going to have dig inside yourself than you even knew was possible. Jordan was always Jordan. He always had those skills and the greatness inside of him. But he still had to crash on the Pistons multiple times until he found out how deep he had to reach inside himself. After that, he went on a run of Championships that no one could stop. He was then super-powered and ran over everyone. This is about more than talent and execution. This is the mental side of being a multiple time champion. I see everything we are saying, and I expect us to be a playoff team soon. I wont take a guess at the high or low side of this coming year - anything is possible from 7-10 to the sky's the limit. But I am confident that we will be a playoff team in 2025. We will be beating teams most weeks, but we wont be seeing the really good teams very often. Our true test, and the growth that comes with it, will be rare, and might even have to wait for the playoffs. I think we could be NFC Championship game bound very soon. I could see us winning any game with our roster, but i can also see losing because of this intangible thing that you only learn once youve lost on the big stage and get a sense of what it takes. So I expect this to come in three phases. First the team ascends, and learns to play together and becomes a top 5 team. Then they start to truly contend and lose a game to be eliminated from deep in the playoffs. THEN I see a real superbowl contender. Of course a double doink, or lucky fumble can earn you a win you didnt really deserve, or lose you a game you should have won. Some years the superbowl is there for the taking because something happened that put the Chiefs out early. Having a top5 team can result in a superbowl victory. But having the best team, primed and battle hardened can allow you to TAKE the superbowl from anyone, multiple times. Hopefully we are on a journey toward building that kind of team. The easy path of an improved roster and the ability to score points isnt enough to reliably and repeatedly be in superbowl contention, but it is the step between here and there. So Im excited, but there are still mountains to climb here, and its going to take a couple seasons if the goal is to be the biggest baddest MFs in the league who know how to dispatch anyone.

I dont think Williams is just an arm. Daniels, for example, has a better arm and is mobile as well. Fields has a huge arm too. Caleb is a playmaker. He reads defenses extremely well, and can get the ball out fast. He is more NFL ready than either Daniels or Fields. Williams is not just a physical specimen, he is an actual quarterback. It's not his arm that's generational, it's the way he plays the position and the completeness of his skill set.

oh yes we still have some holes for sure. I am not predicting a superbowl this year LOL Im just talking about the path we will want to travel.

Oh, I'm not putting a ceiling. I agree with you if things go a certain way, this team could be a super bowl level.team in December. I'm just not expecting that. I think the real window opens in 2025. But it's not because we need more players. Most of the big names on that 2025 superbowl contending squad are on the team right now. It's more a matter of them having a minute to gel. Also, I was talking about getting past Mahomes and being the top team in the league. I dont see that as likely this first year. But I am thinking that this group of players could be that soon, so if they find their rhythm right away, and gel, anything is possible. I dont think this is a lack of optimism. I feel REALLY good about this group. It's more like I realize how tall the mountain they have to climb is, and i think that journey usually comes in stages of improvement. You get to the point where you routinely beat the #8 and #7 team int he league and everyone below, and then you end up in a playoff game with someone really good, or in a SB against KC and Mahomes, and then it usually takes a defeat to show you exactly how far down inside youre going to have to reach. It's not a slight at our roster at ALL. It's more of an understanding of the process of becoming a champion has levels to it, and experience can't be sidestepped. But if theyre playing well at the end of the year and get into the playoffs, they sure do have weapons. I wouldnt be giving up hope on ANYTHING at that point.

I think the idea that having 2 top picks significantly improves a team is obvious and a no brainer. Im not sure about using the raw number of wins as the measure of improvement though for several reasons. One is that the fewer wins a team had the previous year, the more wins you can give them while they are still mediocre. It's a bigger leap from 7 to 10 wins than it is from 2 to 7 wins.Z Youd want to find a way to measure the improvement that makes moving toward an 8-9 record easier than, say getting above 10 wins? HOU went from 3-13-1 in 2022 to 10-7 in 2023. Rather than expressing that as a percentage increase, I'll say that it proves a good rookie QB can lead a team to at least 10 wins. DET went from 3-13-1 in 2021 to 9-8 in 2022 to 12-5 in 2023. it is clearly possible to get up in the 9 and 10 win territory when you add first round talent. I think it's hard to stay at the 3 win level after two high picks, that seems clear. CLE went from 0-16 in 2017 to 7-8-1 in 2018 and then 6-10 in 2019 but they are Cleveland. I think it's fair from this data to guess that 9 or 10 wins is the FLOOR for this roster. I think this roster is more stacked than any of those teams were. I dont thin 12 or 13 wins is an outrageous thing to think might happen, but until I see the pieces on the field together, I have a hard time saying more than 10 as a predicition. If the preseason or the first few games looks like we came ready to play, I would start thinking higher at that point.

that is totally fair! Listen Ryan, I'm willing to forget about Claypool and Velus, but get that OL good OK? He's made a lot of moves on the OL, let's see how they look together, I wish I had the kind of confidence on the new guys that I have in Keenan Allen, but maybe theyre gonna be great, and hopefully at least decent.

booo groan

yeah, maybe I'm drunk on blue and orange kool aid, but that's how it looks to me too. THis offense just has too many weapons, Caleb just has to operate it, and I think he will do more than that.

no doubt Calebs pocket presence and the way he moves to help his lineman will make things better even if he had the same line performance we had last year. Not saying he could thrive with that, but whatever he faces he will make at least somewhat better by his pocket skills.

I think the Bears biggest opponent will be how well they fulfill their own potential. It'll all be about coaching and execution. Which is always true, but in this case we have serious winning potential.

they gave him the boot