BearFan PHX

thats faulty logic since I saw him jogging every week. I saw it with my own eyes. TTNL saw it and commented on it too. Youre alleging that BJ didnt see it? I doubt that highly. He sees everything. You just want to protect DJ for some emotional reason.

because Odunze and Burden need more snaps, and you have to believe in your guys and go forward assuming they will grow. DJ takes snaps away from our core future players.

Signing a mid level free agent is fine, it doesnt have to be Braxton. There will be many other choices.

Every week on the TTNL game wrapup they showed film of DJ jogging routes. I saw it with my own eyes every week. Its just true.

I think I understand where you're coming from. I agree not every argument for keeping DJ is emotional. The one you presented here is well reasoned. I disagree and I'll say why, but there is nothing wrong with what youve said here in my opinion. So first off, I'm not really talking about just one play, but a real pattern of them across the whole year. I think that makes him a negative role model in terms of the veteran leadership point youre making. I also agree that we have the chance to be something really special on offense, I see that too. I just think Luther Burden is ready to step into DJs role, and I dont think DJ is really a WR1. Now both Odunze and Burden have a lot of growing up to do. I dont disagree with that at all. But I think when you have young players that you think have the ability to be special, and you have faith in your position coaches to coach them up, I think letting them play is the best way for them to grow and become the dominant players you think they can be. Right now it's a lot of mouths to feed, if you want to think of it that way, it limits the snaps of the other guys. For me, I dont see DJ getting any better. He's decent right now, but he doesnt have the upside that Odunze and Burden have. I think you could find another free agent WR to play the role Burden did this year, and let Burden step into DJs shoes. And also, yes I think DJs cap number should go to the defense.

its not a put down I MEANT it. I was saying the things that make you a good person dont necessarily apply to running a football team. Why is everyone so prickly right now? Geez.

The message is if you take plays off and jog your routes youre gone even IF youre highly paid. I LIKE that message. I like it a LOT.

exactly - it isnt rocket science. Remember the route DJ quit on causing an interception in the GB game, at the left front corner of the end zone?

Im not sure what youre saying. Ill try to take them one at a time. First here, you seem to be saying that giving full effort half the time is a good thing? Im not saying DJ never gave full effort, Im saying he quit on routes a lot, and that it caused interceptions. And not just the one - remember the Green Bay game in the left front corner of the end zone? Someone who doesnt give full effort all the time is a problem for the culture. Rome also has some hard work to do. He has a LOT of drops. Hes also on a rookie contract and still learning. DJ is getting $28.5M a year. He should be an example to inspire Rome to do better. So this is just nonsense. When you look at JT's analysis, he clearly knows a lot about routes and offensive schemes. I dont always agree with him, but I think he is right a lot. Also, I didnt say "because JT says this it must be true" LOL I have my own eyes, and I see what goes on. What I said was that it was SO bad that JT called it "F*ck You Effort" thats not just bad, its awful. But even if JT never existed, DJ is still half assing it way too much and costing this team. So i think you do understand. It feels like you just want to have some kind of loyalty for DJ. Thats nice in the real world, youd probably make an excellent friend or neighbor. But this is football, and if you want to win, then you gotta do whats necessary to build a winning team. What I dont understand is why people seem to get emotional and want to defend these players. They arent hurting from our comments. Theyre all millionaires. They deserve to be judged harshly for their play on the field. Thats how you build a winning team. With accountability - not participation trophies?

Did that really hurt your feelings? Or are you pretending so you can fight? Im not interested.

there are many ways to create cap space. I predict a good amount of turnover on the Defense.

Im saying the IDEA of worrying about a players feelings and being a fan boy is childish and stupid. That the real decisions are hard and are about money and production. Thats football. The idea that what we write here affects GMs desire to trade for DJ Moore for example is dumb. That IDEA is dumb. If we cant say that, then we cant say anything. Im talking about football, youre trying to keep this fight alive AGAIN. You are not DJ Moore, so when I say he takes plays off, that is allowed on a Bears board. DJ doesnt need you to emotionally protect him. and LOL at derogatory language. dont be such a baby. simplistic and childish are descriptors. They are words with meaning and they convey my opinion. Someone needs to tell YOU to cut it out.

It was one example of DJ Moore giving a half effort among many. It's not that former NFL QB JT OSullivan (QB School on youtube) is the ultimate authority, its just that he rightly showed DJ phoning it in. There are many examples of it. I dont understand why people get so stuck on players and dont want to improve the roster with better players.

Its time to rebuild the defense. Last year the plan was clearly to stock the offense and get it going. Dont be shocked if there are wholesale changes to this defense. We are slow and built for Cover 2, and we have no pass rush. We will look a lot different next year. Last year at this time you said two new starters on the OL (I said four). You were saying how Tevin Jenkins and Braxton Jones would play better. By now, everyone knows your loyalty to players on the roster. But the guys who arent Ben Johnson guys, not Dennis Allens guys, the ones that got drafted under Eberflus are all under the microscope. And i think there is gonna be a lot more roster turnover than people expect.

Its not a bad idea for a thread. I see how the dots line up, why it is an idea. But I think if we are considering letting DJ go because of his attitude and commitment, then we shouldnt take on another one with issues. One of the benefits of moving on from DJ would be a strong message to every player that they are replaceable if they dont keep a high standard of play. I wouldnt lose that for a WR3 at best? Also, to be fair, I've been one to argue that we need to trade Moore, and for me I saw it as keep him as he is, or trade him decision. The TTNL guys last night were talking about restructuring options that I thought made a lot of sense and might be a third way if we choose to keep him. I still think we're better off with a 3rd round pick than to restructure and keep him, but I wanted to say that the all or nothing way I was looking at his contract isn't the entire picture. I didnt think there were realistic options that gave so much cap relief. Anyway, here's the TTNL link If you dont want to watch the whole thing, fast forward to 36:25 for the cap section. Watch for at least 7 minutes to get to $64M in cap space. It's the kind of analysis you really dont get anywhere else, and its really smart and informed. It's never narrative driven, and these guys really know what theyre talking about.

someone please explain to him, that i didnt say anything fighty at all. Please. This is exactly how it all happened last time. You all saw my reaction, but you never noticed the months building up to it. Hes also fighting with other members right now too. All this to say, please dont blame me, Im avoiding all of that as much as possible.

Just trading DJ and Edmunds alone would increase our cap by $31M If you trade sweat, thats another $17M of cap space and another 3rd round pick. If you trade Jaylon Johnson, thats another $6.5M and probably at least a 2nd round pick. We'd get another $10M each if we could trade Dayo and/or Garrett, but i dont imagine we would have any takers, and the benefit of cutting them is much smaller. Kmet would get us another $8M, but i feel like he might just be a little overpriced. If they want to keep him, that works too. I think hes a little expensive, hes been a decent TE2, and usually those dont get paid $11.6M. It could go either way. If you could get a 2nd rounder for him, i think you do it. So you can trade DJ, Edmunds, Sweat and JJ for $54.5M in cap space and a 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th. I would do all of that, pick up a big name edge rusher like Crosby or Garrett, and draft DL. Add in Booker, Shemar Turner and Dexter at nose, and you might have the makings of a plan. We would need help at 3T, LB, CB and S but we'd have room and picks for that. It's a bold move, cleaning house like that, but I think thats exactly the kind of thing Johnson will want to do.

This past week, when Mike Tomlin resigned from being head coach of the Steelers, some professional race hustler and national commentator accused the Steelers of being a racist organization. So, um, the owners are the Rooneys, famous for creating the Rooney rule? So definitely not racist. In fact all these teams want to win and make money more than they care about ANYTHING else, especially race. I think the some people in this national discussion have good motives, and some have bad ones. But all in all the idea that the NFL is racist is laughable. Certainly there are racist people in this world, but I wonder if creating special categories for people based on race doesnt do more to feed the race baiters such as the commentator I mentioned than it does to solve anything with good people of all races. I feel the same about DEI. Racism sucks. Race baiters suck. I dont think the NFL is racist, but I think because of their willingness to bow to some of these demands, it just invites more accusations of racism by those who arent concerned with fairness, but just want to make political points. And then there is the question of how Black is someone? If they have one Black parent is that enough? What about a single Black grandparent? People like Hitler and the KKK were asking those same questions. This is a farce. But all that said, if some stupidity gets us two 3rd round picks, then Ill take them.

probably a third rounder and to get him off of our books so we have $16M more in cap room to spend on the defense.

First off, no one is using anyone as a whipping boy - thats when you unfairly blame someone. This correct analysis of DJ Moore is fair and deserved. Did you see what JT OSullivan called that play? "F--- You effort" was what he called DJ's lack of caring. When you use someone as a whipping boy that means you have some psychological issue: that youre a bully. So again, noticing DJs faults is not a matter of the person noticing them being mean, or unfair or psychologically deficient. It's because DJ has taken a lot of plays off. Hes been lazy and not reliable. Secondly, GMs around the league see the tape. They dont need posters on this site to tell them what is true about DJ, so the idea that we all need to pretend hes not flawed so its easier to trade him is nuts. its just another way to try to stop people saying anything negative. This is feeling very Justin Fields all over again. Here on a Bears discussion board it really is OK to say one of the players isnt giving a consistent effort. It's not traitorous. Its not a sign of a psychological deficiency. It's just an opinion, widely held by many so called experts too. But most of all, it's on the film. And as for his cap number - this trade scenario was easy to see the moment we drafted Luther Burden. We were talking about this in July - remember? I remember saying that DJ, Kmet and Swift were on the bubble. And so they are. It wasnt dark magic, or a crystal ball. It wasnt someone saying they are smarter than everyone or being mean. It's just there in the contracts and salary cap numbers. Now I gotta admit, Swift has played well. Im not saying that because suddenly Im a psychological lover. Its just because his performance on tape is what it is. Some day he will be replaced, but i think he played himself back on the roster - doing things id really not seen from him before. But Kmet? He didnt play up to his cap number, and Dj surely hasnt either. This isnt about being nice or mean. We have to get past these simplistic and childish ways of looking at player evaluations. The tape and the contracts can and will decide the plan going forward. And if you wanted a culture and accountability - then here's our chance to stand by those words. And anyway, even if we dont, Ben Johnson isnt gonna play games. He knows what time it is.

We spent top draft picks on Williams, Odunze, Loveland, Burden and Wright. No one is dismantling the offense. Those are our core players. Moore, Swift and Kmet were/are all place holders until someone better comes along. None iof them s the kind of stud that those players I listed above can grow to be. If Swift were to suddenly just disappear, replacing him would not be an impossible task. It mostly relies on the run blocking from the OL anyway. But you could find someone to pair with Monangai and be fine. He will probably stick around, he's not getting paid THAT much, but he's not a top 5 back. He's a decent vet. Meanwhile this team is going NOWHERE without a pass rush, and we arent finding a player with the 25th pick that ready to be a league wrecker on day 1. We may well draft DL with our first round pick. I wouldnt be shocked if our first three picks go to defense. But we need a veteran who can reliably pressure the QB from day one if we are going to take Caleb seriously. Every starter on the 1985 team replaced someone who came before them. I'm sure someone was crying about their predecessors, but no one really ever talks about any of them anymore. But they do remember that 85 team. So lets build a winner and stop hanging on to every mid level vet thats ont he roster like theyre gold, and trust Johnson to tell Poles who to get to replace them.

The team that trades for DJ will only have to pay him $16M because we will pay the rest of it, and because they pay that $16M, it will open up $16M on our cap.

This feels a lot like the Justin Fields debate. We are at the point where the offseason is next, and we start discussing the good and bad of the players, and for some people, that's difficult, because they are loyal fans, and so they defend the players as if people were insulting their younger sister or something. And I do get where it comes from - a love of the Bears, on all sides. But in reality, if we want to be winners, we have to make tough choices. When the Patriots made the decision not to re-sign Akeim Hicks, was it because Bill Belichick failed to see the kind of player that was? of course not. Everyone in the league knew that Hicks was a good player. It was a business decision - how to allocate your cap to give your TEAM the best chance. I dont hear anyone saying DJ sucks. I'll bet most of us would be for keeping him if his cap number was $12M. But it isnt, and we need resources elsewhere. Also, no player is perfect. I love Caleb Williams, I can say with confidence that he is the best player on the team. He is easily the bears MVP. I can also say that he will be better 3 years from now than he is right now. So that means he has room to grow, and so does that mean Im slamming Caleb? If I see the good and bad parts of him? I love DJ Moore after the catch. He's like a little running back out there with the ball. But he is often not ont he same page with Williams, and his body language is "goofy" at best and possibly "entitled and over it" like a Jay Cutler at worst. There are times he does great things, but there are many times where he jogs his routes, and gives less than a full effort. It might even be possible to move on from DJ for that reason alone. Ben Johnson doesnt want guys that tell the others it's OK to give less than the maximum effort! Remember when we wanted BJ to change the culture? Well that means accountability. And his heir apparent (who will hopefully exceed anything Dj ever did) is ALREADY on the team in Luther Burden III. He is a DJ Moore clone - he has the same skill set, body type and abilities. Sure he's rougher, but you gotta respect that the coaches will coach him up, and he will ascend. And then there are the salary cap ramifications. That makes it pretty clear that DJ Moore is on the trading block. The team that trades for him will pay him $16M, so he's a good value for them at that number. And you know what? I dunno if he would fetch a 2nd rounder. I would imagine a 3rd or 4th rounder might be more likely. If DJ was part of a trade to the Raiders for Max Crosby for example, I'd expect to give DJ, our 2026 1st rounder, a 2027 second rounder and even that might not be enough in the real world. So it is more than fair to speculate about a trade involving DJ that opens up $16M of cap space for us, and fetches a 3rd rounder in the process. But it is also fair to notice the MANY times DJ has quit on his routes. I'll bet behind the scenes, in private conversations with Poles and Johnson, Caleb is lobbying to move on from Moore. I get the fan love, but if you love the player more than the team, then I think that's not how you win Super Bowls.