What would you do at QB?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Between the Watson thread and other places - it looks like many (if not the majority) lean towards not going after Watson (given the direct cost).  So maybe I'll flip this thread around see what all of our resident GM's would do if you were Pace. The key piece here is if you were Pace - so keep in mind your current contract situation.  

Not all encompassing - and I have to think some more - but I presume the Bears list are (and this is in no particular order):

• Draft Pick 
• Wentz
• Winston
• Watson
• Carr
• Garapalo 
• Prescott (if there are any snags in Dallas)
• Watson 3 Way (Tua/D'Arnold - maybe)
• Matt Ryan

Trubisky - at this point would seem off the table. Seems very clear they want to go another direction and take a shot on someone else. Someone else might be better (or worse) than Mitch - but the point is - it is someone else.  There is no one on the above list whom I would totally throw up at the concept of getting - but I would be irate if the team made a play for Teddy Bridgewater. I also am pretty low on a move for Matt Ryan - just reeks of a desperation play and too short sited of a move given Ryan's age.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

For me - if I were Pace/Nagy - I think the simplest, lowest risk move would be making a play at any of the young change of scenery candidates. Because - for any of those players who were a late bloomer (i.e., a Brees or Tannehill type), the development was parlayed by that change of scenery.  The benefit of the change of scenery play - is simple - you aren't leveraging future assets, you likely are maintaining cap flexibility, and quite frankly - you can invest in a bit of the foundation if the team needs to take another swing at a QB again in a year (i.e., this move enables you to draft 1 or 2 olinemen and a wideout with your 1st 3 picks). 

If I were to look at the names on the list - the simple and easy one is Winston - since I believe he's a UFA and quite frankly the perfect change of scenery guy. Former #1 overall who actually has put up some pretty prolific passing stats during his career, but his teams haven't win - partly at his expense - given his propensity for the turnover. He spent a year working with an offensive guru in Payton and just being able to watch a lot from the sidelines.  At 27 years old - if you hit with him - you pay him the money and know you have a guy who you can build around for a number of years.  

And when I say prolific passing stats - his last full season he threw for 5000+ yards - 33 TDs (and an exceptionally alarming 30 INTs).  Bottom line - if he was able to learn and watch Brees/Payton and benefit from that (which is definitely possible) - the Bears could be finding a guy ready to harness his potential (as he has all the arm talent in the world).  You might also say - if he was that good - why would Payton not play him and/or not retain him (given Brees pending future) and those would be fair points/questions. I would hope Pace, with his ties to Ne Orleans - could get some pretty good intel on Winston.  

[Mongo3451]

Since we know Foles is a good backup, he stays and he's not over priced.  What until the Eagles make Wentz a free agent then bring him in on a prove it deal.  Take OL and WR with the first two picks, then BPA after that. (We literally need everything except TE)

Get franchise QB in 2022 by either draft or trade.  Either way, the OL and cap situation should be much better.

[BearFan PHX]

what the team needs is a rookie QB to develop from the first round, but the way this question is asked, and it absolutely highlights the problem, that wont save Nagy and Pace their jobs.

So we will sign some mid tier free agent, and maybe fight to 9-7 or something, and then god help us if that's good enough to keep these fools.

Someone has to think about the franchise, but we have no one to do that work. I want them to sell this team. I am in danger of just not caring anymore. I cant see that, Ive watched this soap opera for so long, but it is off the rails, and it doesnt look to end any time soon.

[Stinger226]

I have been watching the Bears since the late 60s, been so many lean years its hard to count. This is a mediocre team but has many moments of being entertaining. I can just hope for the best and be happy when they win and be in a shitty mood when they lose. They will draft a QB but , in the first round, their is only 4 worthy of the 20th pick. The next few are 2nd and 3rd round picks. If we take one of them at one, that is a bad plan. IF we strengthen the OL, it makes whoever is QBing job much easier. I think Foles will end up being the starter and hope they have the chance to grab a top 4 QB. Otherwise with all these scenarios, most are unrealistic. I think maybe trying to acquire a cheap option, like a Gardner Mishew would add some intrigue to the mix and go from there. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I really do not want them to spend any draft capital, so that eliminates a handful of potential options.  We bet on Foles, so I think he is option #1.

Option #2, I would like to see them get a FA vet to compete with Foles.  Not sure what he has left, but RG3 has experience in a Nagy style offense. Besides his mobility, he was also noted to have arm strength and accuracy.  Can a QB guru get him on the right track and revive his game? It would be interesting and shouldn't cost a fortune.  

Option #3- draft the QB who has the traits but needs work (3rd-5th rd prospect).  Jamie Newman, Tanner Morgan, Desmond Ridder, or Kellen Mond. 

Use the draft to strengthen the oline, find a #1 wr, and a couple defensive pieces.  Come back 2022 and draft QB again.  Get two young guns who can push each other until we have a good one.

[Connorbear]

2 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I really do not want them to spend any draft capital, so that eliminates a handful of potential options.  We bet on Foles, so I think he is option #1.

Option #2, I would like to see them get a FA vet to compete with Foles.  Not sure what he has left, but RG3 has experience in a Nagy style offense. Besides his mobility, he was also noted to have arm strength and accuracy.  Can a QB guru get him on the right track and revive his game? It would be interesting and shouldn't cost a fortune.  

Option #3- draft the QB who has the traits but needs work (3rd-5th rd prospect).  Jamie Newman, Tanner Morgan, Desmond Ridder, or Kellen Mond. 

Use the draft to strengthen the oline, find a #1 wr, and a couple defensive pieces.  Come back 2022 and draft QB again.  Get two young guns who can push each other until we have a good one.

Keep drafting QBs until you get it right. 

Peace

[McGowan]

 

[BearFan PHX]

19 hours ago, Connorbear said:

Keep drafting QBs until you get it right. 

Peace

agree, and if you have to trade up to get a worthy one in the 1st, thats fine with me as long as you dont trade future 1sts to do it. Hell, I guess Id be ok with them trading a future first if we thought the real deal was there, at least well still have the player after Pace goes. I just dont want to see future 1sts traded for someone like Wentz.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, McGowan said:

 

ITs literally isnt going to happen. Just rumor. His cost is an average of 33  mil for the next 4 years. Coming off his worst season with injury history. You would have to be dumb to get him. Well Pace might.  Foles played better than he did last year and he is under contract. 

[BearFan PHX]

35 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

ITs literally isnt going to happen. Just rumor. His cost is an average of 33  mil for the next 4 years. Coming off his worst season with injury history. You would have to be dumb to get him. Well Pace might.  Foles played better than he did last year and he is under contract. 

Actually Wentz will be a relative bargain since a decent chunk of his contract will stay on Philly's cap, assuming he is willing to play under his deal here, and doesnt demand to renegotiate some up front money from us. It'd be 6 to 10 million cheaper per year for us. Im not sure how some of the options are counted etc. But hed be more like 22 to 27 Mil not 33

But even as a "bargain" he'd still be getting real starter money, so you have to think he is your guy, and not draft a QB to start for the next few years.

I hate the idea.

[Bill]

Don't want any more retreads for more than vet min on one year deal or close to that.  I just want this team to be built thru the draft from here on out.  Take a flyer on free agents but only on the cheap.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

5 hours ago, McGowan said:

 

Its hard to say - the year before Wentz was absolutely fantastic and with total garbage around him. Wentz has his warts - but Philly has put pure junk around him.  If he didn't have the rumors of being not that great in the clubhouse - I would be more fired up about Wentz., Even with that in mind - I am 100% okay acquiring him as long as the price isn't crazy.

If the Bears got him - they could cut him whenever they want - as I believe Philly is on the hook for all the guarantees. In fact - for whomever acquires Wentz - the contract isn;'t bad - basically Bears get Wentz around 25M per year for years (and can cut whenever they please with no implications).  I believe that $ amount would be about the 16th highest paid QB in the league.  

So I'll probably bet Wentz is at least average to slightly above average; he's at worse been that every season of his career except this past one.  And he has had a few seasons that were stellar - the one where Foles replaced him from injury - he was on pace for the MVP when he went out.  Bears have never had a QB who we could ever say that about. 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

4 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Actually Wentz will be a relative bargain since a decent chunk of his contract will stay on Philly's cap, assuming he is willing to play under his deal here, and doesnt demand to renegotiate some up front money from us. It'd be 6 to 10 million cheaper per year for us. Im not sure how some of the options are counted etc. But hed be more like 22 to 27 Mil not 33

But even as a "bargain" he'd still be getting real starter money, so you have to think he is your guy, and not draft a QB to start for the next few years.

I hate the idea.

It is why my preference is sign Winston as a flyer and draft a QB.  If Winston is great - fine, you found a QB. If he isn't - by mid year you turn the keys to the new QB.  If he isn't good - new regime takes another shot next year.  

[McGowan]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

It is why my preference is sign Winston as a flyer and draft a QB.  If Winston is great - fine, you found a QB. If he isn't - by mid year you turn the keys to the new QB.  If he isn't good - new regime takes another shot next year.  

I was hearing rumors that Winston is staying in NO. 

 

[Stinger226]

8 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Actually Wentz will be a relative bargain since a decent chunk of his contract will stay on Philly's cap, assuming he is willing to play under his deal here, and doesnt demand to renegotiate some up front money from us. It'd be 6 to 10 million cheaper per year for us. Im not sure how some of the options are counted etc. But hed be more like 22 to 27 Mil not 33

But even as a "bargain" he'd still be getting real starter money, so you have to think he is your guy, and not draft a QB to start for the next few years.

I hate the idea.

I stand corrected, anyone getting Wentz cost for the rest of his contract would be  cap figures on his contract of $25.4 million, $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million. The Eagles have to pay his prorated bonuses. Besides the cost is also what draft capital we must spend on the trade. Sports injury predictor suggests he has a 83% chance of injury going forward and a 10.5% chance of in any one game. 

 

Jan 5, 2020	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Carson suffered a concussion in the team's Wild Card playoff loss to the Seahawks in the first quarter.
Oct 11, 2018	NFL	Back Vertebral Fracture	Exact date of injury is unknown, but Wentz's back trouble dates back to October. He missed the final 3 games of the year but avoided surgery.
Dec 10, 2017	NFL	Knee ACL Tear Grade 3	Wentz departed in the 2nd quarter with a torn ACL He returned for Week 3 of the 2018 season.
Dec 10, 2017	NFL	Knee LCL Tear Grade 3	Wentz departed in the 2nd quarter with a torn LCL. He returned for Week 3 of the 2018 season.
Aug 11, 2016	NFL	Chest Rib Fracture	Wentz suffered a hairline fracture in his ribs against Tampa Bay.
Oct 17, 2015	Non-NFL	Hand Wrist Fracture	Wentz broke a bone in his throwing wrist that required surgery.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I stand corrected, anyone getting Wentz cost for the rest of his contract would be  cap figures on his contract of $25.4 million, $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million. The Eagles have to pay his prorated bonuses. Besides the cost is also what draft capital we must spend on the trade. Sports injury predictor suggests he has a 83% chance of injury going forward and a 10.5% chance of in any one game. 

 

Jan 5, 2020	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Carson suffered a concussion in the team's Wild Card playoff loss to the Seahawks in the first quarter.
Oct 11, 2018	NFL	Back Vertebral Fracture	Exact date of injury is unknown, but Wentz's back trouble dates back to October. He missed the final 3 games of the year but avoided surgery.
Dec 10, 2017	NFL	Knee ACL Tear Grade 3	Wentz departed in the 2nd quarter with a torn ACL He returned for Week 3 of the 2018 season.
Dec 10, 2017	NFL	Knee LCL Tear Grade 3	Wentz departed in the 2nd quarter with a torn LCL. He returned for Week 3 of the 2018 season.
Aug 11, 2016	NFL	Chest Rib Fracture	Wentz suffered a hairline fracture in his ribs against Tampa Bay.
Oct 17, 2015	Non-NFL	Hand Wrist Fracture	Wentz broke a bone in his throwing wrist that required surgery.

There is a lot of hype with the Bears right now, but I would think they would have the medical info if they were indeed making offers.  If they cost the same draft pick wise, is the 5 million extra for Wentz worth it? Does one of those two make the Bears the best? I know I wouldn't lose out on a top LT for a QB that Foles was at least as good as. 

[Stinger226]

With NY stating the correct salary we would pay, this would be a favorable trade if we can get him with not giving up to much. Since it is reported we have the highest offer, I suspect its our first round pick and a future pick. Is that worth it? They are going for it this year so this seems like a move they would make. With a second and third round pick , we should be able to get a OT and WR that can play this year. I think this move would mean we franchise AROB and probably keep Leno with Massie being odd man out. This would mean Hicks would probably be gone also.

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

With NY stating the correct salary we would pay, this would be a favorable trade if we can get him with not giving up to much. Since it is reported we have the highest offer, I suspect its our first round pick and a future pick. Is that worth it? They are going for it this year so this seems like a move they would make. With a second and third round pick , we should be able to get a OT and WR that can play this year. I think this move would mean we franchise AROB and probably keep Leno with Massie being odd man out. This would mean Hicks would probably be gone also.

youre right, but what a crazy world where you lose Hicks but keep Leno - only the NFL could come up with a system that makes that make sense.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I had there might have been a rumor that Philly was interested in seeing Foles come back.  Pace might thing he’d be getting a good deal if her were to trade them straight up...or something hair-brained like that.  Of course i believe that was before Pedersen got canned so maybe that’ll be our saving grace.  

[McGowan]

 

[Bill]

I guess this is why they say drafting the wrong first round QB sets you franchise back five years.   You end up chasing your tail.

[Bertva]

Ok  here is what I would do...I am not going to Draft a QB and here is why...I pick the QB to run my offense and he struggle like most first year QB do. Then Pace and Nagy get fire and a new staff comes in.  If a QB drop to the Bears at 20. He skill set might not match what the new HC needs to run his offense. Sort of the same problem we have now.  if Draft picks need to be traded this year to draft a QB in the first round, and the staff he gets fired I think it will be harder to get a new Staff if they are limit on the draft picks they have. This leave Fee Agency

Watson is to expensive,  of the other I do not think they are going to take the Bears to the Super Bowl.  So I am thinking one of these 2 Carr or Garapalo to back up Foles, when the staff gets fired and a new Staff comes in let them select the QB. I have no faith in Pace selecting a QB.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, Bertva said:

Ok  here is what I would do...I am not going to Draft a QB and here is why...I pick the QB to run my offense and he struggle like most first year QB do. Then Pace and Nagy get fire and a new staff comes in.  If a QB drop to the Bears at 20. He skill set might not match what the new HC needs to run his offense. Sort of the same problem we have now.  if Draft picks need to be traded this year to draft a QB in the first round, and the staff he gets fired I think it will be harder to get a new Staff if they are limit on the draft picks they have. This leave Fee Agency

Watson is to expensive,  of the other I do not think they are going to take the Bears to the Super Bowl.  So I am thinking one of these 2 Carr or Garapalo to back up Foles, when the staff gets fired and a new Staff comes in let them select the QB. I have no faith in Pace selecting a QB.

yes, youve identified a huge problem here - you have a coach and GM trying to win now, and a franchise that needs a longer view.

To not have fired them is not only going to screw next year, but the influence of the moves they make at QB will be felt potentially for years after.

This now, is a failure of McCaskey and Phillips.

 

[Stinger226]

I just heard the deal for Carson might include a first,  Foles and another offensive player.  I'm thinking Miller.