Reality check

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

In this case Im just saying that the higher the draft pick, the better the chance that the player will be good. And that's self evident like I said.

“So you’re saying there’s a chance?”   
 

So then because Justin was a 1st round pick and picked at the 11th spot he could be good because 81% do?  🤷🏻‍♂️

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

“So you’re saying there’s a chance?”   
 

So then because Justin was a 1st round pick and picked at the 11th spot he could be good because 81% do?  🤷🏻‍♂️

Ok, i get it. Whatever, I wont bother posting here for a while.

I dunno why everyone is being such an asshole, but whatever you need to do.

Too bad too, because I have really enjoyed this place in the past.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

If the Bears weren’t my favorite team I couldnt think of a better player to replace Justin Fields.  But they are and I would not replace him with someone who has the exact same issues I read about here every day.  Add in that Justin is already a proven leader in the locker room and Williams is?
 

 

I don’t get it - this video is the opposite of Fields. Caleb steps up and delivers in tight pockets and his ad lib is consistent about having his eyes down field to pass. He runs to pass - Fields runs more to run or for a play to breakdown.

Caleb also has tons of footage throwing to the middle of the field and all other parts. He throws slants on the money etc. Only similarity is when a play breaks down he is elusive but his pocket presence and ability to move through reads is night and day in his college film vs Williams. 
 

Shit I get even more excited when I watch this. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Ok, i get it. Whatever, I wont bother posting here for a while.

I dunno why everyone is being such an asshole, but whatever you need to do.

Too bad too, because I have really enjoyed this place in the past.

Ah cmon man.  Was just trying to offer some playful counter points.  Obviously there are passionate pro Justin and not Justin camps that can make their points logically and otherwise. Until the decision is made this is how it’ll go. No harm no foul.  
 

This post brought to you courtesy of Legado Whiskey.  🥃 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Ah cmon man.  Was just trying to offer some playful counter points.  Obviously there are passionate pro Justin and not Justin camps that can make their points logically and otherwise. Until the decision is made this is how it’ll go. No harm no foul.  
 

This post brought to you courtesy of Legado Whiskey.  🥃 

you can be pro or anti Fields and still understand that 81% positive also means 19% negative in a class. And you know this. So youre trolling me.

You also know (I HOPE) that 81% refers to the #1 pick QBs ONLY, and not #11.

I have been debating whether higher picks generally net better players for over a week here now. It's CRAZY. I dont even really believe most people think that they're just trolling. I mean what's next? That heavy things are easier to carry than light ones? Where the hell am I? It's either the dumbest people in the world, or it's trolling.

So Im left with what? Im dumb because people can fool me by pretending to be dumb (trolling) in between times they are actually dumb?

And Im supposed to what? react with politeness like its not dumb and explain it again? so Im dumb because i dont want to call it out as trolling, and instead give the benefit of the doubt?

or prove that Im not dumb by being rude and calling it dumb trolling? and then Im the fighty guy - which is something people would like to think of me right now because i finally had enough from Stinger whos been a little bitch to me for literally years? I found a private message between me and another member from 2020 discussing his tone with me. This was back when I WASNT responding to it, and being polite and just letting go. I did that for a long long time, as any confident adult would.

But Im telling you no one on this board would put up with what hes done, and I realize none of you noticed it or saw it, so you think Im just overreacting now.

So whats left? Fight and prove Im a dick? Dont fight and cower for acceptance?

All thats left if I want to keep my self respect is to check out, and I hate that because I have loved the discussions here, but Im not loving them anymore.

I cant believe it is a debate about higher picks being more likely to net successful players. If you actually think thats wrong youre a moron of epic proportions, and if you dont think that and just want to prove that you can make me respond politely and try to explain it AGAIN as some sort of evidence Im dumb and easy to fool, then youre just abusing my respect.

So, i think Im done for a while. Not because Im mad, but because its unpleasant, and I dont WANT to fight. Its hard enough to simply debate the realities here. But this is just stupid.

Stinger is still a giant dick. The rest of this is just juvenile and Im not even trying to push back because thats not who I am, despite what you saw when I gave Stinger what he deserved.

But if your instinct, when you see someone finally push back against a bully, is to jump on them and try to tease them yourself, then you must think Im weak and want your turn. And If Im not weak at all, and youve fully miscalculated me and my personality, then I have two choices. Fight with you too, which I simply wont do, because I am an adult man who can actually control himself, despite your wrong interpretation of my response to Stinger, or i can withdraw.

So, Im out, at least for several weeks. Well see if i can find another board thats less fighty. Probably not on the internet. Thats why I used to like this place.

But whatever the outcome, Im sure as hell not gonna stick around with people who are disrespectful.

I'll add this. Im 58 years old. Ive raised happy confident successful children, I had an extremely successful creative career at the highest tiers of the music business in NYC. It was ridiculously competitive, and I ran up against more than a few lawyers for giant media conglomerates and mafia figures in my time. I managed to hold my own and get paid by them, even when they wanted to BS me. None of them, no matter how threatening or combative they were ever disrespected me like that. They knew who I was as a man. And in the end I got paid.

Why Id hang around here, no matter how much Ive enjoyed it, and sell all that out makes no sense to me at all.

So Im out, and Im sure as f*ck not gonna explain how first round players are better than 3rd round players on average again. i dont even know why I would ever speak to anyone who was that stupid. And when they say "well thats your opinion" and try to make it as if Im so arrogant that I think my opinions are facts - I cant even begin to know how to respond to that. 2 + 2 = 4. If you dont get that, thats on you. And that doesnt make me arrogant.

If anyone with half a brain reads what I wrote, theyd see I am always leaving caveats for my opinion, and that I could be wrong and cant predict the future. And if youre offended that I said half a brain, but you still cant tell the difference, than Im sorry if you feel I have revealed some level of your stupidity, but it aint my fault if someone is dumb and cant figure out the difference.

But youre not dumb, you know the difference, you're just poking at me. In fact you know my character too since I private messaged you to make sure you knew i wasnt talking about YOU when in one exchange you werent sure. That was me showing you respect. Remember?

And sticking around to battle that out sounds like no fun at all. The timing of this was really poor on your part.

So i dunno when Ill be back, but my advice to the rest of you is to try to respect each other more here - cuz thats what made this place so great.

And to Stinger, you're an assh*le for causing all of this. After all these years, I dont think you have any idea how much I'd love to show you who youve been taunting. I swear, in person, energy to energy, you'd never say any of it. You have no idea how many CEOs, stars and powerbrokers I have interfaced with, or the mutual respect that our energies found. They knew my implicit "rank" - they let me lead them. Not in contention but in TRUST.

Im not saying that makes my opinions about the Bears any more worthy than anyone else's - but it does mean Stinger wouldnt have spoken to my face like that. Never in a million years. Hed know his place just by the energy. Like when two successful confident men meet - they never pull that crap on each other.

And if the rest of you didnt like how I handled him, and want your turn to shut me up, well, youre not gonna get it. Because that holds no interest whatsoever for me.

Id rather respect you all and debate like men who respect each other. And if thats not on the table anymore, then there is nothing left for me here. And I admit I am very sad about it. But not enough to play submissive bitch games.

[Stinger226]

The fact you want to fight over something 3 yrs old says everything about you. That's insane. We dont have to like each other to have opinions but every time i say something you think its a personal attack on you, just not true. You are so invested in wanting Fields gone you get upset when someone disagrees with you. There is 2 sides to this argument whether you think its so simple to get rid of him or not. Griz is never malicious in any of his comments , yet he's trolling you? Personally i would rather have you stay, you have absolutely affected my opinion on keeping Fields. I was totally committed and now I'm wavering big time. You have to understand disagreeing with you is not a personal attack. I'm not trying to jack with you.

Poles is going to do what Poles is going to do w/o our perspective. No matter how overwhelming it looks like Fields is gone, there are examples that GMs made decisions to stay with a player instead of change. There is no right or wrong opinion, they're just opinions. 

I have no problem with you thinking Im an asshole, you/re not the first person to ever think that. This whole thing started when I mentioned your name about not liking a video because he praised Fields. I cant figure out how you thought that was a personal attack on you? If you hold some grudge from something I said 3 yrs ago , the only I can say is its not worth losing your valued opinion on here. If there was a poll , everyone would vote for you to stay and that includes me. People dont have to like each other to have civil conversations on Bears subjects. 

[Mongo3451]

An old boss of mine said, "choose your battles carefully, because you don't know the hill you'll die on".  I understood the first part instantly, but the second required some more counseling.

[Stinger226]

You were in the music field, that's awesome. When I was growing up, I always wanted to be a rock and roll star. I learned to play the guitar and piano. Actually played once with Robin Zanders from Cheap Trick at a birthday party.  . he lived in my neighborhood and was a yr behind me in school ,. needless to say I sucked but it didnt stop me from loving music. He went on to be a known star. 

[BearFan PHX]

again your lack of reading comprehension is astounding.

I am not mad about something that happened three years ago - I am sick of your little digs that have been constant for over three years. They are unacceptable. I had hoped by underlining them so hard youd be shamed into stopping. But no, youre too stupid to even know when youve gone too far.

Also in the category of how f*cking stupid you are - I have never been offended when anyone ever disagreed with an opinion of mine. They are opinions. Everyone has them - this is not a new concept to me, again especially having worked in a creative job for decades, its ALL opinions. Obviously.

I am not upset if someone disagrees with me about whether to keep Fields or not. That's ridiculous.

But there are facts as we go. The plays I diagrammed for example. In those plays Fields didnt make his read. Thats not an opinion. But again, even if you think facts arent facts, thats just your stupidity. It doesnt provoke a reaction.

What I am done with is the fighting. The personal little asides. Your continued fighty attitude. I have had enough of it. I told you , then i warned you. Each time you doubled down, so then I went after you in hopes that finally other might say "OK you two settle down" and then the next time you did it, people other than me would tell you to stop.

Instead, people want to f*ck with me now. Fine. Like i said, Im done. I only came back here so no one was mistaken thinking I am mad about some single slight from three years ago. Its not a single slight, its literally hundreds of them. Unacceptable, and like i said, Im gone.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

again your lack of reading comprehension is astounding.

I am not mad about something that happened three years ago - I am sick of your little digs that have been constant for over three years. They are unacceptable. I had hoped by underlining them so hard youd be shamed into stopping. But no, youre too stupid to even know when youve gone too far.

Also in the category of how f*cking stupid you are - I have never been offended when anyone ever disagreed with an opinion of mine. They are opinions. Everyone has them - this is not a new concept to me, again especially having worked in a creative job for decades, its ALL opinions. Obviously.

I am not upset if someone disagrees with me about whether to keep Fields or not. That's ridiculous.

But there are facts as we go. The plays I diagrammed for example. In those plays Fields didnt make his read. Thats not an opinion. But again, even if you think facts arent facts, thats just your stupidity. It doesnt provoke a reaction.

What I am done with is the fighting. The personal little asides. Your continued fighty attitude. I have had enough of it. I told you , then i warned you. Each time you doubled down, so then I went after you in hopes that finally other might say "OK you two settle down" and then the next time you did it, people other than me would tell you to stop.

Instead, people want to f*ck with me now. Fine. Like i said, Im done. I only came back here so no one was mistaken thinking I am mad about some single slight from three years ago. Its not a single slight, its literally hundreds of them. Unacceptable, and like i said, Im gone.

I honestly have one question before you go, if Poles brings Fields back , would you quit being a Bears fan?

[BearFan PHX]

God DAMN youre an idiot.

Is there not a single one of you to tell this guy to stop?

[Stinger226]

You left this site and were all done with it. I'm still here and I'm not stopping making comments. Just go away. 

[BearFan PHX]

10 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

You left this site and were all done with it. I'm still here and I'm not stopping making comments. Just go away. 

F*ck you

[BearFan PHX]

Ill tell ya what. Ill stop posting about the Bears here, and just post about your sex tourist molester ass. How about that you piece of shit?

Does everyone really want to read all this every day all the time? How about for THREE YEARS? At what point would ANY of you have had enough?

Maybe Ill be booted, or maybe someone will tell you to just stop.

I wonder you little pussy.

Someone somewhere needs to kick your ass.

[AZ54]

22 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Having top pick 2 years in a row shouldn't be a consideration.  The real question is - we have a top 2 pick and can't punt on if we think we have a need for QB.  If we need a QB because we don't think our QB is a difference maker and one is available - than it is a no brainer. Point blank that is really the only question / consideration at end.

I will also go on record that the concept of - just draft one of the other QB's in a later round - is just a rubbish strategy.  Oh I'll just get one in the 2nd round.  Now that strategy might work - but it really can't be considered a strategy, its more getting lucky that every other team missed their eval and you were right.  The reality is - going back the last 20 years - this is who has differentiated as a QB outside of the 1st round (obviously the GOAT is on that list).  Other than that since 2000 - I think I have pretty much everyone covered...so 23 years and the below is about all there is.  The inverse means - a heck of a lot of the better QBs were drafted in the 1st (by the way - plenty busted too).  

So point blank - the question has to be - do you think Fields is the guy. If the answer is yes - than you aren't drafting a QB at 1.  If the answer is No (or you have material question(s), than you have to look at this class. If when you assess this class - there is a guy in this class that differentiates himself and you think is special - than you select him at 1.  You don't get cute - you draft him at 1.  If your answer is no - than by all means, stick with Fields and take a flyer on a later round pick (but do so knowing that is purely a developmental play not a strategy for finding your QB).  

Below is my list of what I believe to be difference makers taken after 1st round. Initial focus was on 3rd round and later and than I segregated 2nd round slightly different (because in some cases I think some added context is relevant around why they went in the 2nd - such as Brees was 2nd rounder, but also 2nd QB to go off the board (behind Vick); Hurts was 2nd rounder - but he followed an extremely deep class of 1st rounders).  

3rd Round and Lower:

Russel Wilson

Brock Purdy

Tom Brady

2nd Round: 

Drew Brees (2nd QB taken though behind Vick)

Jalen Hurts (5th QB taken in a ridiculously strong QB class - Burrow / Tua / Herbert / Love went before him)

 

Almost List: 

Derek Carr (2nd Rounder) - Doesn't deserve to be on the list above.   

Kurt Cousins (4th Rounder) - Again - I don't think he belongs on the list with the guys above (to be frank Brock Purdy may eventually fall of the list too - but thus far he warrants being included). 

 

Note: I do think a good strategy is to contiously draft QB's in the later rounds - but not as a strategy to solve your existing QB problem - do it to create depth and competition and create enough odds where you might find your NEXT QB by doing that (I kind of think of it more in terms of future proofing your LT viability).  

I can accept your premise on the Fields question.  I disagree on your premise that the only two possible answers are yes or no.   
 

i agree on the belief that if there is a clear top 5 QB caliber rookie then you just draft him.  If that player were in this draft we likely don’t have this thread.   
 

What interesting is your list of elite QBs includes Purdy.  Purdy has no elite traits whatsoever.  Rather he is the poster child for using draft capital elsewhere to build the best possible roster around an average QB.  
 

That is the nature of the debate.  At least for me because I’m solidly in the maybe category when it comes to Fields.   Even if I don’t think he’ll ever be top 10 could he be top 15 with the right OC?    After some of the crappy plays we ran against Cleveland for me that answer is yes.  Or at least most likely yes.  
 

Because of that and the middling QB class (IMO) I prefer to keep drafting Pro Bowl caliber players Rd 1.  There are two LT candidates.   Bowers at TE and a few WRs.   
 

By the way.  After some reflection it’s clear how much an elite TE has meant to both Brady and Mahomes.  Neither was the same without them on the field.   Still good but not unstoppable.    If you want to come down a notch look at Goff and LaPorta.  I could make a strong case for Bowers as the must have receiving option.  

[adam]

Gents, we don't need this here, there is enough chaos on Reddit, in Discord, on Twitter, FB, etc. Please stop with the personal attacks. If you don't agree with someone, just don't respond. There is no need for anyone to get stressed out on a Bears discussion board. It's a free country and you can do and say whatever you want, but don't make this personal. 

Fields is a very polarizing player. 10x more than Trubisky ever was, but at the same time, there is an opportunity to draft a QB #1, which the Bears have never done. Poles can literally go in any direction, which is unprecedented freedom. The franchise is probably in the best position for sustained success going into next year since Lovie/Urlacher era, maybe even better. Can we just enjoy the ride?