Caleb...

[Mongo3451]

This should be fun.  Caleb Williams needs to grow the F up.  He showed me too many plays yesterday that showed prophetic to his draft critics.

For starters, his head clock is killing him.  His feet get happy too soon and inaccuracy follows.  I don't see him as the guy that's willing to take the extra millisecond and take a hit.  If he is willing, the flight mechanism is overriding his intent.  You could clearly see that, especially the sidearm throw to DJ in the end zone.  He saw it and nuked the throw in a rush.  Cooler QB's loft it out there. 

Situational awareness needs to be a huge trait of a QB.  Caleb showed me several times that he doesn't get it.  He cost us time by not running out of bounds, when he clearly could have.(You too DJ)  He got a grounding penalty instead of throwing the deep out that was coming open on the same side of the field.  As the QB, he knew the route Rome was running.  If it wasn't there, throw high.  There was another dump off to the left that could have been called grounding.  What he missed was Loveland running free toward that area with room to make a huge play.  There was also a third and nine play with a five yard pass to a receiver that was bracketed.  The worst of them all was the three second stare down to Rome that the DB was waiting to pick.  He didn't look for anyone else that play.  It was very high school. 

At some point, Caleb's wild spirit has to be broken to the point that he's willing to run the offense without the things that are costing him to play poorly.  Yesterday's game was a pure indicator of the value of the turnovers we were getting.  I'm sure the Bengals have taken note.  For the life of me, I don't understand why he always has to do that jump throw to the sideline when he's evading pressure to the right.  It simply doesn't work as often as he would like.  Just run the damn ball and pick up a few yards.

Do I believe Caleb was the most talented player in his class?  Absolutely!  Maye was my first choice and it had nothing to do with talent.  Maye had been competing and learning how to overcome adversity since he was in diapers.  There wasn't a person in his family that he didn't have to struggle to beat.  I wanted the competitor over the talent.  They look too be wired differently.  When Maye talks, it's quickly and sure.  When Caleb talks it's umm umm.  I never liked that trait.  The good ones never stammer.  I'll wait to see if someone knows one.  Trust me, the traits I speak of aren't always a sign and it's simply what I like.  And I'm wrong as much as anyone.

Growing pains are what they are.  Sometimes you see growth and sometimes they just hurt.  Caleb has time, but needs to realize what he's doing and what it means on every play.  Caleb is our guy and I like him very much.  Hopefully, he grows quickly so we can see what he's meant to be.

 

 

[AZ54]

Especially bad when he’s in front of his family and friends in Maryland.  He definitely needs to be coached hard and I think we have the right guy to do it.  For Baltimore that was a playoff game yesterday.  We didn’t come prepared.   

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Caleb is part of the problem but there has also been plenty of good too. He has to be better and more confident throwing guys open and getting through his progresssions but he has had his positives too and has massively reduced his sack rate. 
 

The whole offense continues to false start (literally and figuratively). Too many mistakes between penalties, drops and poor execution too - in particular in red zone. Even mediocre red zone execution and we are having a different story. 
 

I expect to see real progress these next few weeks. Let’s see Bears dig deep and grow vs wilt!!! 

[BearFan PHX]

Caleb has a lot to grow yet, no doubt.

But we also see flashes that prove he CAN do it. The first couple drives this week stalled out in the red zone, but we all saw the offense working in rhythm, and weve seen it throughout the year.

The problem is consistency. And that includes all the things Mongo detailed at the start of this thread. They all need work.

But it's not like he cant do it - he just inst doing it consistently. Some of it is on penalties, some is on the other players, and some is on Caleb.

But if you just look for flashes, every sign points that Caleb CAN do this. And I believe Ben Johnson is his best shot to get to where he is going.

If you look at Goff's first 8 games with BJ (after he had already been a good NFL QB for several years) the numbers are strikingly similar to Caleb's.

If people want to say that Caleb right now is not good enough I completely agree. But I think his future is very different than other QBs weve had here. Caleb shows flashes every week. Thats what this season is for - to develop consistency, and to face issues and then work on them until he cant be beaten that way anymore.

I would still take Caleb over any other QB from his years draft. Not for where he is right now, but for where he is going. It is going to take some patience.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

If you look at Goff's first 8 games with BJ (after he had already been a good NFL QB for several years) the numbers are strikingly similar to Caleb's.

Conversely, Goffs numbers were nearly identical to his four years with McVay before going to Detroit and spent 4 years with Johnson.   I’d fathom a guess his (Goffs) numbers are trending similar right now. 
 

Sure Caleb COULD improve.  But I’m not 100% Johnson is the magic elixir everyone makes him out to be. I’m slowly gaining faith (with the improvement of the running game as evidence).  But until Johnson starts scheming his TEs into the 12 man offense, I’m a skeptic.  And I need to see the mechanical side from Caleb to believe HE is the answer too.  

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Sure Caleb COULD improve.  But I’m not 100% Johnson is the magic elixir everyone makes him out to be. I’m slowly gaining faith (with the improvement of the running game as evidence).  But until Johnson starts scheming his TEs into the 12 man offense, I’m a skeptic.  And I need to see the mechanical side from Caleb to believe HE is the answer too.  

This is the exact conversation we all had about Mitchell and Justin at this point in their careers.  We could see the flashes and hoped for the consistency.  Accuracy, footwork and timing.  Timing being the most important thing for any QB transitioning from college to pro.  Here we are praying another one makes it.

[BearFan PHX]

16 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

This is the exact conversation we all had about Mitchell and Justin at this point in their careers.  We could see the flashes and hoped for the consistency.  Accuracy, footwork and timing.  Timing being the most important thing for any QB transitioning from college to pro.  Here we are praying another one makes it.

nah, Caleb has shown he can do it in flashes in every game. The first two drives this last week were awesome until they stalled in the red zone.

Our problem is consistency, and thats very different than what we saw in Fields and Trubisky. We didnt see the in rhythm plays that we routinely see from Caleb.

[Pixote]

14 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

This is the exact conversation we all had about Mitchell and Justin at this point in their careers.  We could see the flashes and hoped for the consistency.  Accuracy, footwork and timing.  Timing being the most important thing for any QB transitioning from college to pro.  Here we are praying another one makes it.

Couldn't agree more! Every young QB we have had has shown us an amazing pass that we claim proves he is the "chosen one" to lead us to the SB All he has to do is do it consistently. Then he continues to tease us by throwing into double coverage when another receiver is wide open, or by throwing a pass to a wide-open receiver so far off target that, even if it is caught, it puts the WR in harm's way.

Here is hoping we don't have to start over AGAIN. We need Caleb to grow up (as an NFL QB)!

[Mongo3451]

4 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Here is hoping we don't have to start over AGAIN. We need Caleb to grow up (as an NFL QB)!

I believe Caleb is going to make it.  He's been given weapons, OL and coaching that the other two didn't.  It's up to him...

[Pixote]

5 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I believe Caleb is going to make it.  He's been given weapons, OL and coaching that the other two didn't.  It's up to him...

Man, I hope you're right. 

To be honest, I am sick and tired of hearing all of the excuses as to why he hasn't become consistent.

We are about to finish the first half of his second season. It's SHOWTIME! 

[BearFan PHX]

We never saw Fields playing in rhythm - we see Caleb do it every week, but making mistakes too.

The idea that Caleb is the same as what we've had is false - making a pattern where none exists.

[Pixote]

8 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

We never saw Fields playing in rhythm - we see Caleb do it every week, but making mistakes too.

The idea that Caleb is the same as what we've had is false - making a pattern where none exists.

I would have to respectfully disagree. Both Mitch and Justin showed "flashes." 

However, neither one had the ceiling Caleb has. The potential to be great is there.

All I am saying is that after 23 games of being inconsistent, it's time for him to show up. 

The Caleb I am seeing on the field is not the Caleb I expected to see at this point in his career.

[Stinger226]

27 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

This is the exact conversation we all had about Mitchell and Justin at this point in their careers.  We could see the flashes and hoped for the consistency.  Accuracy, footwork and timing.  Timing being the most important thing for any QB transitioning from college to pro.  Here we are praying another one makes it.

Every QB we had lately we looked at the good side and the bad side and hope for improvement. Both our previous QBs had flashes as you say but just didnt consistently do it. We are seeing the same inconsistencies in Caleb. The difference to me is now we have trust in a coach that can make Caleb better where we didnt with our last two coaches. 

I remember that game that Trubisky threw 6 TDs in and thought we had a special QB. He finished the year going 66%, 32 TDs and 12 INTs 3223 yds. Ran for 431 yds and 3 TDs. That was his second yr just like what we have for Caleb. 

Justin Fields first year was a total waste. He was suppose to sit and learn and Nagy threw him in the fire with a bad line and not a lot of weapons. His second yr was when he run for 1143 yds and 8 TDs. Threw for 60.4%  2242 yds 17-11. His stats would have been better but he missed two games. Looking back he had terrible coaches since they were fired last yr. Had he had BJ as a coach I am sure he would have helped him to be more consistent. None of that matters now, you can go back on a players development. He hasnt gotten much more consistant in his career. 

Caleb has some of the same traits we condemned Justin for . Holds the ball to long, leads the league at 3.07 seconds. Hasnt been accurate since he has come into the league. 62.3%; over two years. He seems to rather throw into double coverage to Rome than look for dump offs to TE or RB. I think BJ can correct his bad traits but for now we see his potential . I think he wants to be Mahomes type (hero ball) where all he needs to do is be Goff for now. . His special talents will show up once he becomes Goff then he can play like Mahomes and do the hero ball stuff. . 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

By using the wonderful world of AI I was able to compare Trubisky's start to Williams' start (their respective rookie years).  Then compared how Trubisky's 2018 campaign (his sophmore year and the year we last made the playoffs and he nod to the Pro Bowl) was to how Caleb is doing so far....interesting stuff.  

 

First each of their rookie years:  

Then their sophmore years:  

 

[Stinger226]

56 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

By using the wonderful world of AI I was able to compare Trubisky's start to Williams' start (their respective rookie years).  Then compared how Trubisky's 2018 campaign (his sophmore year and the year we last made the playoffs and he nod to the Pro Bowl) was to how Caleb is doing so far....interesting stuff.  

 

First each of their rookie years:  

Then their sophmore years:  

 

I agree they are similar but the full season will tell the story. Remember Mitch didnt succeed here so we can only hope Caleb improves. Definitely has more talent than Mitch but that doesnt guarantee anything. 

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

This is the exact conversation we all had about Mitchell and Justin at this point in their careers.  We could see the flashes and hoped for the consistency.  Accuracy, footwork and timing.  Timing being the most important thing for any QB transitioning from college to pro.  Here we are praying another one makes it.

While the conversation is similar there are key differences for me.  First I’ve already seen Caleb throw more WR open or throw before they make their break then Field has done his entire career.  Caleb can layer the ball into open zones in the intermediate routes.  Fields is, for the most part, still a line of sight passer.  Rubbish could layer the ball correctly but couldn’t read the coverage.  Caleb make a lot of good checks at the LOS.   Against Baltimore later he saw their blitz,  checked to the next play and threw a perfect ball to Swift right around a blitzing Kyle Hamilton for a big gain.  The one trait I want to see from Caleb is consistency.  I’m definitely not out on him.