bowlingtwig Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Obviously I'm in minority. So let's give mccown that big deal and cut jay. All things solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 "Hocus pocus" in the context you used it and saying that he just wins is a "joke" makes one wonder what your "hope" is. If for nothing else youre not a believer. McCown has done nothing but prove himself. As has Cutler. So far between the two, THIS YEAR, McCown has the better record et winning percentage. I didn't doubt your allegiance to the team, don't cram words. Just said what I said above. And I make no qualm "old associate" or not, I'll debate you just the same. I said I'm not a firm believer in him that I would want him over jay in the super bowl and u quickly jumped to conclusion I hope he fails just to prove a point and saying I'm a hater. See I can no longer say anything about anyone otherwise I'm a hater. Come on man. Y'all can believe how great he is all based on less than 3 games despite no track record. Just for the record I'm not exactly sold on cutler being the man either. Guesstthat means I'm a hater to jay also. BREAKING NEWS: IM AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY HATER. ALL ABOARD THE HATER TRAIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Obviously I'm in minority. So let's give mccown that big deal and cut jay. All things solved You're definitely in the majority over all and more importantly the team thinks like you do. Most likely he will be given the reigns when he is healthy, and will be tagged at the end of the year. It all is moot at this point. Honestly, I just think the offense as a whole operates better with McCown. Trestman doesn't see it that way, in the end that's what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Daventry my old buddy ol pal. I'd have to say I agree. If we simply look at this year, the comparison sample (between Cutler and McCown) is different. Where Cutler has a tendency (some say knack) for a turnover, McCown has not committed that error - yet. Granted McCown hasn't got a lot of "starting quality" stats over the years, the arguement could be made that he hasn't been in the right system. Same arguement could be made for Cutler with Chicago for that matter, at least until this year. And I won't say he (Cutler) hasn't improved but to again look at the sample for this year where Jay has now had at least three bad games (to include the last Detroit game - not his fault) McCown has yet to falter. I side with Twig that I hope McCown doesn't falter (although I'm not convinced by your sincerity). But I will also stop short of declaring McCown the permanent starter for the team. As will he. Alaskan, my old nemesis, I hate to admit that it makes me happy that you agree with me….at least to some point! :noteworthy You may not believe it but I do respect your views, maybe more now though, haha. Seriously, I am not saying that McCown is THE answer, that we should sign him up to a Flacco-like contract and ride him to the promised land. What I am saying is that if the Super Bowl were tomorrow, I would take him over Cutler based on what I have seen, nothing more and nothing less. I am also not entirely convinced Cutler should not be re-signed, I will leave that to the experts, who we seem to have now, and who see much more, and more accurately, than I ever will. Part of me would not be sad to see Cutler go, and a part of me would be…..I am honestly not sure about the long term, but lean towards him not being the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 You're definitely in the majority over all and more importantly the team thinks like you do. Most likely he will be given the reigns when he is healthy, and will be tagged at the end of the year. It all is moot at this point. Honestly, I just think the offense as a whole operates better with McCown. Trestman doesn't see it that way, in the end that's what matters. As they say, 'this'. Twig, I don't necessarily dislike Cutty. I like the guy, bought his Jersey, sang 'Hosanna' when he came to Chicago, the whole nine yards. It's just that his 'body of work' makes me cringe sometimes. I like many things about him; his strong arm, his aloofness, his intelligence, the fact that he is about as good a QB Chicago has seen. I also dislike him sometimes for the same things...minus the last. I realize this year he's had the distinct disadvantage of being injured and quite possibly could have led the team to the big game had he not been hurt. I also realize the Bears are largely responsible for his wear and tear. So in context, they owe each other something. I think he should be tagged for next year. I'm not sure that if he were to go on the open market (or trade) he'd go to a team he'd be happy with. At this point he might get a back up job on a good team, or a starting job on a bad team (Jax, TB, Minn come to mind). I don't think he wants that. Being tagged will give him another shot at showing his worth and another shot at the Bears giving him the opportunity to get a ring. I don't think McCown should be the starter for the rest of the time he's in Chicago. Never did say that. Just that he's been playing better (like TD says) and hasn't proven yet that he needs to be sit down, especially if Cutler isn't 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Alaskan, my old nemesis, I hate to admit that it makes me happy that you agree with me….at least to some point! :noteworthy You may not believe it but I do respect your views, maybe more now though, haha. Seriously, I am not saying that McCown is THE answer, that we should sign him up to a Flacco-like contract and ride him to the promised land. What I am saying is that if the Super Bowl were tomorrow, I would take him over Cutler based on what I have seen, nothing more and nothing less. I am also not entirely convinced Cutler should not be re-signed, I will leave that to the experts, who we seem to have now, and who see much more, and more accurately, than I ever will. Part of me would not be sad to see Cutler go, and a part of me would be…..I am honestly not sure about the long term, but lean towards him not being the answer. Thank you mate. I don't think McCown is THE answer either. And yes if our team was on the precipice of going to the SB tomorrow, I'd have to say that McCown would get the start. If it were the next day...maybe Cutler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Thank you mate. I don't think McCown is THE answer either. And yes if our team was on the precipice of going to the SB tomorrow, I'd have to say that McCown would get the start. If it were the next day...maybe Cutler. I am comfortable with McCown, and the results we have gotten, but to think he is some kind of franchise starting qb, cant bare the thought.Cutler for sure has his negatives, but with a resemblance of a an offense line and some weapons has looked a lot better and I think under Trestman's tutelage would deliver what a franchise QB would be. The money thing will come into play next year with all the roster spots we need to fill. He will command a big contract if not from us from somebody else. There will not be any hometown contract, he doesnt have to. He will be in demand. Probably best case scenario would be to franchise him and give him another year to prove himself because this year has been overshadowed by injuries. Not sure how I feel about that, but in any event we will draft a QB in this years draft and things will play out accordingly. I am a gambler so maybe I role with McCown coming back and a high draft pick for a QB and hope it all ends well. Spend the 18.5 on some better defensive players with a baddly needed up grade on defense. Really we dont need to address those questions now, we have plenty of time to beat each other up with the proper answer to those questions. Next year we need a new center, two DTs , new safties, CBs, way to many needs to address in one offseason. We will see quickly how good is Emery, to see if he is a miracle worker. Conclusion, hopefully McCown plays well, Cutler comes back and plays well, our defense gets better and we win the division, and have a first round playoff home game. Maybe that can happen maybe not, but I as a human being have the ability to dream and choose those results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Wasn't McCown brought in under Angelo? JA didn't get results soon enough to save his own job, but I think most would agree we can feel comfortable with both our starter and our backup, and that's saying something since the Bears organization has historically had QB woes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Thank you mate. I don't think McCown is THE answer either. And yes if our team was on the precipice of going to the SB tomorrow, I'd have to say that McCown would get the start. If it were the next day...maybe Cutler. I have never had doubt of your love or knowledge of the Bears…and hope that you are doing well. I too would love to have a guy with Cutler like skills, but I am not sure the mental fortitude is there nor I am sure whether the physical skills have become eroded…..in this system you don't need a Brady, you can do with a Gannon…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I have never had doubt of your love or knowledge of the Bears…and hope that you are doing well. I too would love to have a guy with Cutler like skills, but I am not sure the mental fortitude is there nor I am sure whether the physical skills have become eroded…..in this system you don't need a Brady, you can do with a Gannon…. So would you rather have Brady or Gannon? Systems dont make you a better QB, they play within the limits of the QB and maximize your potential, a better QB will end up having better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I am not sure it is that easy, what makes a "better" QB? Arm strength? Intellect? Brady has won more so I would pick Brady, but would not discount Gannon, as I remember watching him when playing with the Vikes and thought he was much better than the credit he was given. Wrong time, wrong place, etc….Brady has benefitted from being with no question the best team in the NFL throughout his career; it would be interesting what may have been if he had started in other franchises. I highly doubt he would have been as successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 I am not sure it is that easy, what makes a "better" QB? Arm strength? Intellect? Brady has won more so I would pick Brady, but would not discount Gannon, as I remember watching him when playing with the Vikes and thought he was much better than the credit he was given. Wrong time, wrong place, etc….Brady has benefitted from being with no question the best team in the NFL throughout his career; it would be interesting what may have been if he had started in other franchises. I highly doubt he would have been as successful. Maybe, but then again maybe he is the catalyze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Maybe, but then again maybe he is the catalyze. Perhaps…..but I doubt it. No Billichek=losses IMO…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 He will command a big contract if not from us from somebody else. There will not be any hometown contract, he doesnt have to. He will be in demand. Probably best case scenario would be to franchise him and give him another year to prove himself because this year has been overshadowed by injuries. Not sure how I feel about that, but in any event we will draft a QB in this years draft and things will play out accordingly. Cutler will draw interest, but I don't think he'll be able to write his own ticket. What you have stated regarding injuries and erratic play will come into play. Also, teams will also note the things others have been critical of like attitude, leadership and coachability before handing out a ton of cash. Add in the fact, that only a handful of teams are looking for a QB and a very deep draft class. (Jags, Texans, Raiders, Bucs, Cards and Vikes) So, I'm guessing a hometown discount may be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 So would you rather have Brady or Gannon? Systems dont make you a better QB, they play within the limits of the QB and maximize your potential, a better QB will end up having better results. similar to the the alex smith vs. manning chiefs game? with smith it's a long grind and if you get behind against a high wire qb that can light up the scoreboard that separates the men from the boys in post season play. me i want a guy with the potential to go toe-to-toe with the best if possible and keep you in the big games against those upper tier qb's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 As they say, 'this'. Twig, I don't necessarily dislike Cutty. I like the guy, bought his Jersey, sang 'Hosanna' when he came to Chicago, the whole nine yards. It's just that his 'body of work' makes me cringe sometimes. I like many things about him; his strong arm, his aloofness, his intelligence, the fact that he is about as good a QB Chicago has seen. I also dislike him sometimes for the same things...minus the last. I realize this year he's had the distinct disadvantage of being injured and quite possibly could have led the team to the big game had he not been hurt. I also realize the Bears are largely responsible for his wear and tear. So in context, they owe each other something. I think he should be tagged for next year. I'm not sure that if he were to go on the open market (or trade) he'd go to a team he'd be happy with. At this point he might get a back up job on a good team, or a starting job on a bad team (Jax, TB, Minn come to mind). I don't think he wants that. Being tagged will give him another shot at showing his worth and another shot at the Bears giving him the opportunity to get a ring. I don't think McCown should be the starter for the rest of the time he's in Chicago. Never did say that. Just that he's been playing better (like TD says) and hasn't proven yet that he needs to be sit down, especially if Cutler isn't 100%. Hilarious u say cutlers overall body of work makes you cringe. Hell we could all say that and your absolutely right but I was pointing out Josh's overall body of work and you completely dismiss it just because he's had a couple nice games. Let's be completely fair. Josh's overall body of work in 12 years doesn't tell me he could win the big game tomorrow. As with cutlrrs ovrrall body of work you can reasonably conclude he could win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 similar to the the alex smith vs. manning chiefs game? with smith it's a long grind and if you get behind against a high wire qb that can light up the scoreboard that separates the men from the boys in post season play. me i want a guy with the potential to go toe-to-toe with the best if possible and keep you in the big games against those upper tier qb's. I think that is a bad comparison. Manning is like a frankenstien's monster of the best things McCown and Cutler bring. McCown has his ability to read defenses and work through progressions to exploit Trestman's system. Cutler has a great arm and good ball placement a lot of the time. That combination makes Manning great. McCown has shown in his games that he's able to make a last minute scoring drive against the Lions. He kept up in a shoot out against the Redskins. I know it's not the best defenses, but Cutler struggled against both. I just don't see why McCown gets relegated to Alex Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted November 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 If you get a chance and have "faith", this is a great video from Josh. I think I will get his jersey. He's a great man and inspiration. Good luck today Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 So now what, vs a great pass rush, McCown goes for 36-47, 76.6%, 2 TD, and a 102.4 QB Rating. If not for the garbage time INT, he would still have not thrown one. What else could he have done better in this game? I say he has earned another game unless Jay is completely 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 So now what, vs a great pass rush, McCown goes for 36-47, 76.6%, 2 TD, and a 102.4 QB Rating. If not for the garbage time INT, he would still have not thrown one. What else could he have done better in this game? I say he has earned another game unless Jay is completely 100%. I agree. I want jay healthy before he returns. Josh has played quite well And was pretty good again today. I won't even look at that pick and count that against as game was already over and we should have just been running the ball to end the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I think that is a bad comparison. Manning is like a frankenstien's monster of the best things McCown and Cutler bring. McCown has his ability to read defenses and work through progressions to exploit Trestman's system. Cutler has a great arm and good ball placement a lot of the time. That combination makes Manning great. McCown has shown in his games that he's able to make a last minute scoring drive against the Lions. He kept up in a shoot out against the Redskins. I know it's not the best defenses, but Cutler struggled against both. I just don't see why McCown gets relegated to Alex Smith. i agree that mccown has looked very good but the comparison is this... smith does not have the arm strength or accuracy a qb like cutler does have on a come-from-behind long ball crunchtime situation in the 4th quarter. it's the same for mccown. mccown does very well at moving the ball downfield with accuracy but in a more controlled attack of short to medium gains. in those situations he can't stretch the field like cutler or one of your elite qb's. the problem is that in post season games chances are you are going to be facing a qb who can put up a lot of points. if you are going to be able to compete against the best you need too be able to put up points in a short period of time to win. you can't take half a quarter to score 1 td if you are behind multiple scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 you can't take half a quarter to score 1 td if you are behind multiple scores. I dont the delayed scoring was due to McCowns play. Instead more because of all the penalties . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thanks for charing that. Easy to like the guy... If you get a chance and have "faith", this is a great video from Josh. I think I will get his jersey. He's a great man and inspiration. Good luck today Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I dont the delayed scoring was due to McCowns play. Instead more because of all the penalties . True. I've not seen such an undisciplined effort by a Bears team in a long time. Bring back Lovie! McCown made some outstanding throws. I'm coming around on him. With that said, I'd have prefered to have Jay out there when we were down by 14. Just think he had more of the tools necessary under those specific circumstances. Not something that can be proven, obviously. Besides, all of this discussion about QB ignores the elephant in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 True. I've not seen such an undisciplined effort by a Bears team in a long time. Bring back Lovie! McCown made some outstanding throws. I'm coming around on him. With that said, I'd have prefered to have Jay out there when we were down by 14. Just think he had more of the tools necessary under those specific circumstances. Not something that can be proven, obviously. Besides, all of this discussion about QB ignores the elephant in the room. No kidding. Til that D improves it won't matter who the qb is. trestman spoke today and sounds like jay needs another week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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