Lucky Luciano

yup, that says it all

this is my thought on it as i have stated this in the past and maybe yours also... if you are mathematically out of the playoffs there is NO sense to me to play older veterans or your franchise type players (other than offensive line for obvious reasons and you could even add one spot per game there) in the last game or three of the season. it is just plain stupid. lovie smith virtually took 3 years off of urlacher's career doing so for absolutely nothing. it not only prematurely led do url's retirement it hurt us in MANY ways the following season and limited our potential to achieve the ultimate goal. if winning a superbowl is paramount over any other consideration, and it sure as HELL should be, you do this: you play your younger players or your veteran players on the bubble for the following season's cuts. you do this so your GM and coaches can really evaluate the existing talent and future young players they have under contract this season OR the veteran players whose contracts are up and gives you real data on whether to resign them or not. this certainly is not game planning to lose or tanking a game or season's end. the results will 'probably' be losses but at least you will get valuable information you need when the season is over to make your team better for next season's superbowl run. i will state this again... if you do not win a superbowl your season is a failure and you need to do everything possible to prepare for next seasons success.

i agree. also it could be he was still not with it from some of the hard hits he took last week. it seemed he was off a bit mentally. maybe a low grade concussion?

i agree that mccown has looked very good but the comparison is this... smith does not have the arm strength or accuracy a qb like cutler does have on a come-from-behind long ball crunchtime situation in the 4th quarter. it's the same for mccown. mccown does very well at moving the ball downfield with accuracy but in a more controlled attack of short to medium gains. in those situations he can't stretch the field like cutler or one of your elite qb's. the problem is that in post season games chances are you are going to be facing a qb who can put up a lot of points. if you are going to be able to compete against the best you need too be able to put up points in a short period of time to win. you can't take half a quarter to score 1 td if you are behind multiple scores.

similar to the the alex smith vs. manning chiefs game? with smith it's a long grind and if you get behind against a high wire qb that can light up the scoreboard that separates the men from the boys in post season play. me i want a guy with the potential to go toe-to-toe with the best if possible and keep you in the big games against those upper tier qb's.

i am not sure how to PM anyone. can i go into your profile and hit message or what do i do? i would appreciate a copy of what you have. first... i am not even saying that jeffries did or did not push off. that was never the point. what i was trying to convey was that other players i have seen do the same or even more flagrant fouls and no flag. that to me is the crux of officiating problems in the NFL... consistency. are the rules written with escape clauses for interpretation or area's that any play could be called either way (thus a grey area) and still be correct according to the rule book? are the officials on the field then interpreting this information correctly according to the intent of the rule or CAN they influence a game by using this grey area on individual calls and throw or not throw a flag? worse case scenario, if either is the case then you are opening up pandora's box in the sense that any games outcome and score 'can' be influenced or determined by an official who is not necessarily breaking the rules implemented by the NFL. with a billion dollars in gambling money going on in any given year there is certainly the risk of payoffs or bribes in this respect. to shave points for a spread is just one concern. the difference between a TD or a FG in a game can be a huge payday if someone wants to use this to beat a spread or overall points. so to the point... like the laws of our land they must be concise and clearly stated and most importantly they must be the same for everyone every time. this is where my concern lies. in any game consistency of the written rule and the rules clear interpretation is paramount. example, one play a hold is called. the next play it could be the same infraction but NOT called. even reading your link (thanks) it appears to be reasonably clear for receiver or db's. yet i am seeing guys getting held on the field and flagged and the next series not being called. the same is true for push-offs by the receiver. a while ago they implemented rules to limit DB's from defending against a pass (a bad rule in my opinion). basically the receiver was to be unmolested after 5 yards past the LOS. no hand fighting etc. now it seems they are loosening up these rules (again interpretation by officials?) and allowing more contact downfield. so that leads again to a grey area of what is too much and what isn't to draw a flag. so for me the key is consistency. if the rules that should be enforced kill the flow of the game with penalties then the rules need to be revised and clarified to take out the judgement calls or non-calls by officials whenever possible. one last item... did you watch the panthers pats game? i guess i have never heard of or seen a rule that negated pass interference if it was intercepted and the infraction occurred prior to the INT. that is a new one on me. i was rooting hard for the panthers but that was a BAD call and was similar to the original "tuck rule" in it's lack of any foundation for calling it that way.

yes, what i want is clear dialog and it is possible within reason to do so. i have stated this in the past that nearly all holding calls are a wild interpretation by the officials. one gets called and one doesn't with no clarity as to why. i understand that there are judgement calls all the time by officials and that is the nature of sports but... there has to be some clear "diologue" as to the why and what for of some of these calls. 30 years ago if you were an offensive lineman you never grabbed a jersey and held on or it was a holding penalty. you wrapped your arm around a defensive players neck it was a holding penalty. it was reasonably easy to call. now there is no rhyme or reason to it unless it is a flagrant penalty. one play an offensive lineman puts the defender in a headlock and no flag. the next play with the same circumstances it's a holding call. are there degrees of your arm around the neck of a defender? how about grabbing a defender by the arm or shoulder to slow him down on his way to the qb? i have seen it called and not called. where is the consistency of officiating? hell in the bears game i watched a bear player virtually get tackled from behind with no call on the LOS.

or maybe to difficult to back up your opinions with real facts? then i guess since i am the only person 'complaining' about it it has no merit? great statement. i assume that questions or observations are only legitimate to you if the crowd voices them? i don't have a rule book and would like to see your copy of the NFL rules in this regard. so, why don't you post these "verbose" rules and enlighten the world with your interpretations of them. oh i think i understand how these rules are 'supposed' to work. i just question the validity of what constitutes a catch in some instances and what constitutes the end of the play. obviously your linear thinking can't seem to grasp the concept that maybe the rule/s or interpretations of those rules can and should be questioned. oh, so if YOU pointed it out it must be written in stone? maybe you should change your screen name to Moses. just so i got this straight... you have never seen a play where a veteran top tier player makes the same infraction as a rookie and gets away with it while the rookie or some nobody player gets the flag? even the numbsculls in the booth comment on it occasionally. whether you believe it or not it is interpreted ON THE FIELD by officials who either don't know the rules, the rules are in place where he can be right any way he calls it or they flag/don't flag the infraction at their discretion to keep the flow of the game in which case they can possibly control the games outcome or it's score. spoken like a true cog in the machine. so, in your estimation there are no bad officials because they are.... officials? i am curious though, what do they do with the official's grading system you seem to love so much? they (whoever 'they' are) grade them and then what? you never did answer the question of how many NFL officials have been fired since 1960 for incompetence? any at all? what happens with a low graded official and where do the lower graded officials go? banished to officiating games in buffalo in january? here is where you diverge into the abyss. i am not some paranoid homer that thinks everyone is out to get the bears. everything i have stated is in regards to the entire NFL. that includes calls made or NOT made by officials for ANY team in the NFL in any given game. what i WANT is what is best for the sport - NFL football - where it is not designed to be determined by a single individual using grey area rule interpretations. in other words they need to sit down and clean up the mess they have with clear dialog on the interpretation of all of their key rules.

well it's certainly just my opinion and i have no tape to review, but this is what i have observed... there is no forward movement more times than not at the snap. he is getting stood up and locked in with the guard or center. as small as he is he should be getting under the pads of the guard for leverage and not visa-versa. he has a grand total of 5 sacks in 3 years (1/2 sack this season). i believe the AVERAGE sacks per season for a DT is around three. that is a pathetic statistic considering he is starting next to pepperman who prior to this season was getting double teamed nearly every play. i 'believe' the average tackles per game for an NFL DT is two. he has 31 tackles in three years (not counting assists). what sold it to me was i believe it was against the packers. the left guard for green bay locked up with pea and moved him down the entire length of the offensive line. he ended up in front of or beyond the offensive right tackle. that was one of the plays green bay ripped it up the middle for BIG yardage. it is not something i have ever seen that a defensive tackle looked like he was on ice and shoved that far being manhandled by a guard. so for me... he is a bust unless he has some kind of awakening and something drastic causes a change.

first: the endzone is a completely different entity from the rest of the field. IF a receiver catches the ball and tucks it in he has possession of the ball and THAT is a football move. when a knee hits the turf in the endzone that is the end of the play as long as he has possession at the point in time his knee is down. otherwise the results are at opposites between a pass reception or a running play. it can't be both ways and if it IS then it is just as i said... the rules are slanted to give the refs the leeway to call the play any way they want to and the call will always be correct. isn't this exactly what i have been saying? if he makes a football move after the catch and falls or is tackled and his knee was down prior to the ball coming out it is a completed pass. if that completed pass is in the endzone the play is OVER and it's a touchdown. it's no different than the megatron call against the lions. i don't care what anybody says, that was a touchdown and we should have lost that game. if that play would have been called a touchdown there is nobody on the planet would have thought twice about it being the correct call. thus they can go to the extreme edge of the rule and call the play any way it suits them and still be correct. again as i said before and you seem to agree by your statement, the refs are in a position to effect the results in a game because the rules are so poorly built for interpretation. ok, again you are stating that the rule you are refering to is a complete judgement call because the rules are so vague. what exactly does it say in your rule book for the amount of time that constitutes a "delay"? i'm sorry, but if he pulls the ball in and has control and both feet are down it is a catch. exactly correct. so why is it NOT a touchdown when a receiver who has possession of the ball with both feet on the ground in the endzone? the running play as stated is a TD as long as he has possession and the ball is in the endzone. he doesn't even HAVE to have any feet on the ground. well then you need to go into great detail about what these 3 requirement are and how they are used to determine a hold. because what i am seeing on game day is certainly not any yardstick to determine one hold from another other than complete blatant infractions. i have seen many questionable calls on our TE's and tackles that another player got away with even worse hold and never got a flag. let me ask you, when an OT has his arm hooked around the neck of a defender taking an outside rush is that not impeding his ability to move or pursue? how many times over the years has peppers been nearly raped in pursuit of the qb with no call? how many plays have you seen a guard grabbing the inside of a defenders jersey and pivoting him out of the hole or holding him while the defender tries to move laterally to pursue the ball? i could sit down if i had game tapes and go over nearly every single down and find at least one hold that is going on that could (should) be called so if it is not a judgement call or badly written rules or both then how can you explain it? ever heard of a rookie getting flagged for calls a darling veteran gets away with every play? did you watch any of those bad calls on jeffries last season for holding or pushing off? or maybe how cutler can get decapitated with no flag but the darling tom brady or brett favre gets jostled by the wind and a flag comes out? so do the officials just interpret the rules differently for each player or team? jeezus did you watch the lions game? cutler should have had at least 2-3 major roughing the passer calls from those thugs farley and suh. yes i do say there are hundreds of bad calls or non-calls and all of these equal the same in the flow of the game. a bad holding call is a drive stopper along with just about any of these bad calls. just for the record i have been watching professional football probably longer than you have been alive. so yea, i do understand the game of football at least a little (by the way, i have figured it out that every play isn't reviewed. it took me decades to do it but i finally got it.) as far as offical grading... it is basically a joke. exactly how many NFL officials have been fired over the last 40 years? give me a link. who is doing the grading of these guys? is it the people who MAKE these crap rules or are they graded by OTHER officials or former officials or is it all three? or could it possibly be that as i STATED the rules are so poorly written and can be interpreted any way an official wants to interpret it and still be RIGHT? hmmmmmm, one has to wonder.

you mean when football was a sport and not an exhibition? then riddle me this... what is the definition of a catch in the open field? control of the ball and making a football move? if the receiver drops the ball after that move whether by being hit by a player or simply lets the ball fall to the ground is that not considered a fumble? if after making that football move a receiver is tackled and fumbles the ball AFTER his knee is down who gets possession of the ball if the defense recovers? OR, if he caught the pass on his own 10 yard line and runs it 89 yards and is tackled and the ball comes out after his knee is down, is that an incomplete pass? on a running play... if the ball crosses the goal line but the runner's knee was down prior to that is that a touchdown? if a runner breaks the plane of the goal line with the ball and fumbles it before he is down or the play is over is that a touchdown? i think i can strongly disagree with that. if you do not believe this is true you are wrong and here is why... WHO is making the judgement calls if not the refs? there are not just a few bad calls a season but hundreds of them. is not every play determined in some form by an official even one in the replay booth? are these rules so complicated and general that they can be interpreted both ways and still be right? i believe they are. example: the rules for offensive holding in today's football are the biggest unknown maybe in sports history. it is nearly ALWAYS determined not by the rules, but by each individual official who 'can' in a whim (or an under the table payday) completely influence the outcome of any game OR influence the final score (gambling spread). the reason for this is that on every single play nearly EVERY offensive lineman could be called for holding because the rules have changed so much over the last 20 + years. in the previous hundred years or so no offensive lineman was able to use his hands to grab onto a defensive player or his jersey, hook him or basically shove him to the ground etc. thus you have now in existence a rule so poorly written with such poor intent that it is not possible to go by the written rule in todays NFL to make fair judgements. 2. roughing the passer -another rule to be interpreted by each individual ref. each individual referee in every game makes judgment calls causing a wide variety of his definition at the time for a penalty or non penalty call.

if they keep paea as a starting DT we are in deep $#!). this guy produces like a bad walk-on.

jeffries catches the ball, has control, his knee touches the ground. is that not the end of the play? these NFL rules are purposely made to have such a wide interpretation, or grey area, that the games are now controlled by the refs on the field as to who wins or loses... NOT the rules of the game.

can you upload the PS document keeping your clipping paths?

i don't see being able to cover the run very well is a main requirement (other than in lovies cover nobody) in a cover corner. he 'had' the speed and coverage ability to bump and run with #1 wideouts. that is what i want in a corner. someone who can play man coverage off the LOS. he has no injuries i know of and would be worth the gamble as a stop gap corner for the price he will garner this season. quite frankly peanut never had that speed (his sole purpose when drafted was to cover the large receivers like moss and the big guy from the packers) and it is very clear that this season with the age, groin and knee injury it's not getting any better. to compensate for that a move to safety would immensely improve his game. he is smart, has a lot of experience and is somewhat a team captain for the DB's. i see NO problem for him to become a safety. in fact i believe that was his original position in college so it's not like he couldn't figure it out. we 'should' improve at the cb position. i can't really think of anyone on the bench that could come close to his talent even if he is a shadow of his former self. with peanut at safety no matter how poor he might play there is no way in hell he is worse than either of our starters. as a roaming free safety he should enforce our last stop defense on the field with great tackling and the ability to double up a weaker cb. to me it's win/win

the niners cut asomugha or will soon. he is 32 years old but still could possibly contribute to our defense. put him in at CB and move peanut to FS. he has to have better speed than an injured peanut and we could move peanut to free safety where his lack of speed would not be as critical. if i was emery i would take a long look at this guy.

i can assure you i am not trivializing concussions in the least. but it is the reality of professional football and the players accept that risk for large amounts of money. in fact i read that peyton manning himself purposely had a low score on the concussion test just so it would not effect his playing time because of it in the future. what does that say to you? how many has he had? is it a risk? yes for every player. but it is their choice to take this risk unless we flat out ban the game because of health and safety concerns. if they did that i could live with it. could you? next... you mention how many concussions cutler has had is "alarming". exactly how many has he had and how serious were they? how does it compare to the rest of the league for players in every position?

i never had any problem with what you said. at this point in time i don't agree or disagree IF this franchise gives cutler his walking papers what path to follow. first... what exactly is trestmans "system"? i can say that at this point in time i don't know. he has no body of work as the man calling the shots in the NFL and has only played out 7 regular season games in chicago. all this with an offense that is comprised of a group of players who mostly have never played together. thus his "system" may look entirely different after this season. in fact his "system" may never even work. second... i very much disagree that a system like trestmans (a version of the *west coast offense?) doesn't require a good + quarterback or better. yes even an elite qb to run it the way it is supposed to be run to have superbowl caliber success. do not believe anyone that says otherwise. the proof of my statement is well documented starting in the early 90's in a bill walsh's system run by the 49ers after his departure. the quality of that system was emphasized by joe montana (an elite qb) and continued to the late 90's with steve young (another elite qb). after young's retirement they went with lesser quality qb's and basically faded into mediocraty. * some are saying the system we are running is a version of the west coast offense. i am not some blinded cutler fan that even remotely believes he is of the same quality as a peyton manning or tom brady or joe montana. the chicago bear franchise made absolutely sure of that after taking a quarterback with all the tools and all the potential to be in that category and running his career into the turf (literally) for FOUR YEARS with horrible management and even worse coaching. what i do believe is that despite what was done to him he is still a GOOD+ quarterback with that ugly word 'potential' to become EXCELLENT if trestman is half of what he is touted to be. that is why to me it is imperative this franchise moves forward with him until there is a time when we can actually draft a qb in the lower rounds that we can be assured of is at least of that quality by grooming him over a period of years and then make the decision of which way we want to go. right now it can't happen unless we go all in for this seasons draft and move up into the top 10 and draft a high potential prospect. we CAN'T afford to do this at this time because we have so many serious holes to fill on defense and even a few on offense because of poor past management drafts. we are locked in. that is the ugly truth.

other injuries not pertinent? don't you even read your own posts?? now let's get to the rest of it.... do you even have a clue as to what you are talking about? it is not even serious enough to require SURGERY!!!!! will it take time to heal? YES!! will he be 100% this season? NO!! does that mean his career is done? NO!!! he makes a living throwing the football, NOT running. he is not bobby douglas, he is not mike vick, he is not randal cuningham. he is a passing qb who can scramble well, period. per the chicago tribune... "An MRI exam revealed Cutler has a torn groin muscle. Briggs, the anchor of the defense, has a small fracture in his shoulder, the team said. Regarding Cutler, Trestman said, "I'm only confident by what they've told me. This is a minimum of four weeks. Then he'll be evaluated week to week. ... Four weeks is a reasonable start. And then it'll be week to week. I'm encouraged by the prognosis." i guess you know more than the rest of the world. you mentioned the history of players with this injury has proven difficult to rebound from... name me some players in the NFL whose careers ended because of a groin injury. name some whose careers were never the same afterwards. name a single qb whose game was never the same after a groin injury. don't have any? do you realize peanut has had a groin injury almost all season? i guess he is done too? or is that just quarterbacks? what the hell are you talking about? so what is your point? nearly every nfl player suffers concussions in their careers. is it somehow different with cutler? joe montana - suffered many concussions one memorable concussion required hospitalization in 1987 New York Times: "Joe Montana, the San Francisco 49ers' quarterback who was knocked unconscious in the 49ers' 49-3 loss to the Giants today, was kept overnight for observation at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan." yea it was cutlers "need" to run. it certainly couldn't have been anything to do with our offensive line...hahahaha what ever credibility YOU thought you might have had just went down the crapper. i'm done with you.

ok i 'think' i get what you were asking before. it was such a poorly written question (."What say you IF McCown has as much if not better success for the time he fills in?") using a quote from me that was to another members post about KIRK COUSINS. i assumed you were talking about "plugging" in mccown and support mccown as our starter if he does well. ok, my mistake. so much for the "fluff" huh? now i will answer the other side of that question... no, it does NOT mean that any ham & egger quarterback can come into this system and perform as well or better than a high quality player no matter how well mccown plays (even with the gannon effect there is no time for mccown to have a career long enough to work in chicago). there is no system i know of or have ever heard of that can do that. if it were so then every team would do it and forget about paying out the big bucks to the brady's, manning's and brees quality qb's. that is why 'potentially' elite qb's 'usually' go in the top ten of the draft.

well, here are some qb's that did pretty well with an injury history: tom brady - nagging shoulder injuries throughout his career.season ending mcl / acl knee injury 2008, shoulder finger rib injuries in 2009, shoulder foot injuries 2010, knee injury 2013 (he is now 36 years old), peyton manning - season ending SERIOUS neck injury - knee injuries, gluteal (what ever that is) joe montana - neck surgery 1986, sciatic nerve problems from back injury, there were only 3 seasons montana played all games in a season due to injuries. i could go on and on with this but the fact remains nearly all good qb's suffer from injuries and play on to have excellent careers. concussions are a serious concern but nearly every player in college and the NFL has suffered concussions or is at risk every single play. nearly all the stats for concussions in the 20th century were never even reported. a qb is at far less risk than a running back, wide receiver or tight end. where is the concern for resigning marshall or jeffries? again, if you do some research nearly every player in the nfl including qb's has a shopping list of injuries. again i will say a qb SHOULDN'T take the same kind of abuse a running back or wide receiver takes and without the moronic clowns we had as a gm and coaching staff here anymore it looks a lot brighter for any qb in our system to avoid injuries. degraded from what? you can't SERIOUSLY consider the previous years in chicago as any litmus test to judge his talent. i emphatically state... tom brady, peyton manning and any qb you can THINK of would have looked bad or been on IR continuously in the criminally negligent system we ran in chicago under lovie smith!!!! you don't agree with the progression of this year. hmmm.... the line we are sporting is not stellar but it certainly is a giant improvement over our past years cutler was in chicago. that said, where are they rated in the NFL at this time as a unit? individually? does that mean long is a bust? how about mills? etc. etc. etc. cutler is yet AGAIN learning a completely new system under a new head coach and OC. he has played in SEVEN games under this new system and you don't think he was progressing fast enough? what are his ratings compared to the rest of the NFL? these stellar qb's everyone brings up in the media have had years working their coaching staffs and usually very good offensive lines that have worked together for YEARS. there is only ONE player on our line that was here from last season. finally... cutler is cutler. you are going to get the INT's along with the stellar qb play, that is just the way it is. all-in-all he is a GOOD+ qb that has the potential to be EXCELLENT with good players around him and competent coaches. note: JERRY ANGELO had to know this when he brought cutler to chicago and gave up TWO first round draft picks to get him!! yet the gm and coaching staff did absolutely nothing to protect him, give him weapons or give him any chance to succeed in chicago. it was a freaking joke and lovie smith and jerry angelo share the blame and shame. EDIT: i have to comment on your honda accord statement. what exactly do you consider an upper tier qb? when cutler left denver he WAS an upper tier qb in his PRIME who had an excellent arm, very good accuracy and was able to scramble with the best of them and was selected to a PRO_BOWL. in my book that's a ferrari and you can put your honda analogy out there but it is WRONG. we did NOTHING to improve this qb through coaching. we did NOTHING to protect this qb from injury or damage. we did NOTHING to supply him with weapons to be successful. we just kept drafting defense and garbage to keep lovie and angie's jobs secure at the expense of a qb who potentially could have been the best in chicago maybe EVER.

josh mccown is a good backup qb in this system and that is all. you do not want to base your franchise on this qb. here is why... 1. he will be 35 years old next july. that gives him at the very best 1-2 years of top performance left in his career. if you want to build a system around him it's too late. 2. he just is not a good starting quarterback. prior to the last game as a bear in which his qb rating was 119.6 (for one game) the highest qb rating he has ever had was 74.9 in arizona in 2005 starting 6 games. that was under dennis green as a coach. although green is a joke, he was a pretty good developer of qb's and offenses. the following year he was released by the cards. that says a lot when a qb in his prime is cut and ends up in detroit the following year as a backup. sure anything can happen but realistically mccown is fools gold that hit on one game and now everyone wants to pencil him in as a possible replacement starting qb in chicago. he is doing what he does best... backing up a real starter.

one last item... if you don't think getting rid of a GOOD+ quarterback and going in a different direction at this point for a complete unknown then i suggest you never partake in the games of chance. that is rolling the dice in a big way that effects this franchise for another 3-5 years for no reason at all.

i'm sorry but if you are looking at the injury aspect of cutler you don't know what you are talking about. these injuries can happen to ANY quarterback at any time and any age. we are not talking about a recurring shoulder injury or back problems that will not get better or contribute to the end of a qb's career. if you really want to look at just how tough cutler really is then look at the time he has been in chicago up to this year. there is not many if any qb's in the nfl that could have taken that kind of punishment for that long. to say he only had the problems he has had is to me amazing. so please... stop yourself if you are suggesting his injury history is any problem. as far as his record? look at the previous imbeciles that ran this team including the mighty angelo who in essence bought a ferarri in cutler and used him to pull hay wagons. it all leads to the perfect recipe for failure of any qb including the likes of brady or manning/s.

if we can't get a cap friendly contract structured with cutler then i agree you franchise him. if trestman can't judge the talent level of cutler by now he isn't even close to the qb guru we have hoped he was. what ever happens we do NOT need to draft a qb high this year unless it is as sure a thing as you can get in the top 10 of the draft and trestman wants to dump cutler anyway. otherwise we are shooting at the moon yet again with a low 1st rd pick or later. it is just way too risky while the rest of the team is defunct of talent. with cutler in the fold, even for one year, it gives us breathing room to either get a long term contract worked out or dump him with at least some time to look for the replacement.