Alaskan Grizzly

Yeah and the fact he was in Chicago several days ago, visited some other teams (who didn't sign him) makes me think they aren't too convinced he'll be around either. I personally hope so. Like what Cruz has to offer but know he's older and coming off some bad injuries.

Mitch Trubisky may in fact become a good NFL QB. I will not argue that point. He is not yet. And he's definitley not a Franchise QB. But this discussion we are having has taken two paths. The first being whether you really need a Franchise QB to win it all. You and I appear to agree that you do not. Then the second path was about a list of QBs you thought were Franchise QBs and some were just good QBs which I said there were some on the list, you considered "meh" or good QBs that still needed time to be evaluated to determine whether they were Franchise level quality. And then a sub path evolved regarding how if Cutler was the measure of bad QBing then surely QBs like Newton must be too because his stats are similar, in some regards. And now we're back to saying that Franchise QBs aren't that key an element. Yes I don't agree with you possibly?

There were rumors Jay had some injury issue that on top of his less than stellar career is why he may have gotten no offers. That and I honestly don't think he really wanted to play anymore. Eli has gone to, and won, two SBs and been to the Pro Bowl a handful of times. Cam has gone to one SB, been the league MVP and been to 3 Pro Bowls in his 5(?) year career. Jay had one Pro Bowl appearance and how many playoff wins? I don't think those of us critical of Cutler are alone in our judgement. And to Cams defense and in relation to his lower passing numbers; he's the prototype dual-threat QB that can equally hurt you with running and pass plays.

I think the first thing you need to understand about my concern is not as much with Trubisky as the QB they chose. It's just how they did it that concerns me. Does it concern me that Wentz played in a small school league? Now it doesn't, no. Had you asked last year and the Bears chose him instead I may have asked similar style questions I am asking about Trubisky. But hindsight being my friend I can say Philadelphia chose wilsely with Wentz. You yourself believe that Pace made a try at getting Wentz so he couldn't be all bad. Wentz played in a more NFL style offense at ND State. Where it was known as a "run dominant scheme". Versus North Carolina's which is based on the 'Spread Offense' scheme and more pass happy. In fact they were ranked 14th overall in passing offense last year in NCAA Division I. Meaning, Trubisky would have more opportunities to throw the ball than would have Wentz thus the comparative numbers. The one other immeasurable to consider is that in both schemes, Wentz was given more opportunity to choose the plays (whether it be run, pass or whatever) because he learned to read what the defense presented. Whereas Trubisky, playing in a spread offense, is more apt to read hand signs (or like Chip Kelly's card system) and not make those crucial pre-snap reads. But like you said, it still remains to be seen how either will perform. Wentz did pretty good coming out of the gate cold. How well Trubisky does may not be known for 2-3 years.

Considering your last question asking how long, I think it fair to consider the likes of Mariota, Newton, Carr, Winston, Luck and even Cousins in the 'potentially could be' category. Of this group most of these guys (save Newton) have only been playing 2-3 years and its too early to tell if they are or are not franchise QB's. Newton (2015) has been the league MVP already and some would question how goes Newton, so too goes Carolina. Thus his affect on the team's ability to win, thus he being a Franchise QB.

Thank you for reporting Adams earlier post. But yes he did have a small sample size too. Not because he couldn't beat out the starter ahead of him until his last year but more due to his having a wrist injury during his final year of eligibility and missing out on 8 games. Nevertheless he still was able to lead his team to two consecutive FCS championships (2 of 5 in a row). And compiled an overall win/loss record of 20-3. Far cry more than 8-5. It was also noted in scouting reports that Wentz came from a more NFL similar type offense in SD State thus helping make his transition that less difficult. Did Philly take a risk with Wentz? Perhaps. But hindsight being what it is; no. I hope to say the same about Trubisky. Right now we can't.

Oh man I hope so!!! ?

Aside from comparing character traits from one QB to another, you still would have a hard time saying that Trubisky is a better prospect based on only 13 games whereas these other guys had at least 2-3 years of starting time to measure. Yes I understand that Manziel is and was an idiot; but so too were (are) Winston and Michael Vick. Both of those guys still have or have had decent NFL careers so far despite themselves. Yes and double yes!

Based "on his SMALL sample size" how could "they" rate him higher than any of the QB's that were listed? To include Manziel, Bridgewater and Locker? Trubisky only had 13 total starts and had an 8-5 record when he did. Manziel won the Heisman his Freshman year after setting all kinds of SEC and school records. In his two years as a starter at A&M he played impressively against Alabama winning one of two contests. Bridgewater was a starter for about 2 1/2 years in Louisville where in his second year as the starter led them to the Big East Championship and an overall rank of #13 at the end of the season. Although Locker wasn't really 'star-caliber' coming out of college, he was noted to of at least started for the better part of 3 1/2 years in Washington. Up until he started getting hit with the injury bug later in his collegiate career, he was setting records in the PAC 10 and Univ. of Washington. Besides the 13 game starter career, what accolades does Trubisky have to show for it? Third team all ACC. With regards to the rookie mini-camps and how well Mahomes, Watson and Trubisky did comparatively to one another, I'd first like to see the 'struggles' that you mentioned about Watson. Not as interested in Mahomes as going into the draft he was said to be a project anyhow...many here compared him to Cutler. But with Watson I'm curious. From what I've seen not much has been said really that he did bad or good. All I've seen is that HC Bill O'Brien has commented that there are a lot of adjustments Watson will need to learn from college to the Pros mostly due to the fact that Clemson didn't run an NFL style offense. Same goes for Trubisky. As far as that goes though, many have considered O'Brien a QB coach by nature and would be more in tune with what's going on for a new QB learning the system whereas in Chicago you have Fox, who is an RBC defensive minded coach.

Might be a tad early to write these guys off as not as good as advertised yet. But I was having a hard time understating the talk about all the potentially great QBs in the 2018 draft as opposed to this years class. I'm glad Bucky did some researching about the same questions I had.

In watching the limited video they had from mini-camp it looks as though his basic mechanics are sound. This considering he's never played in an NFL comparable offense. He had good throwing motions rolling right and left and kept a good base when releasing the ball (as opposed to rocking back or throwing off one foot - ala Cutler). I suspect his height at 6'2" (a tad short for prototypical) will help in seeing over olinemen. Just an aside and note on the point; Brees measures at 6'0" and is known to stand on his toes occasionally when throwing downfield. This doesn't seem to have affected his ability at getting 4,000 yard seasons. All that said; mini-camp isn't much better than the Draft at assessing ones true long-term ability. Meaning when you see a prospect running drills in shorts and t-shirt you won't get the full measure of how they'll perform in pads...or with a 300 lb Dlineman bearing down on them. I think we'll get more an idea of his being comfortable once they start regular camp. Hell have a lot more to work through with pads and defenders on him and on the field. But his saving grace is that Glennon was meant to start this year anyhow so he'll have an opportunity to absorb as much as he can. Personally I think Pace will get graded on the last two drafts and the other four picks this year before it's determined how well he did in picking Trubisky.

Damn! A "minor" hand injury and now this? No wonder he's got a history of recurring injuries. He probably would sit out if he broke a finger nail... or got sand in his pink parts. When I hear about guys like this I always wonder what Art Donovan would say.

All we can do now is 'hope'.

For those convinced Franchise QB is the answer I pose this question; how and when do you get one? 1st round, top 5 pick (even using other picks to move up if need) or wait until the 6th round?

For me, it's more about the overall team and specifically the defense. Take a look at our own Bears and consider 1985 as an example. But even more recently in 2006 when we last made a Super Bowl appearance we had Grossman as QB. How about in 2005 (when we lost to the Fox led Panthers in the divisional round)? And as you pointed out in 2010 despite having 3 QBs we still made it awfully close. What were the common denominators? Strong defenses. Looking at your list above, of the teams that did make it to the SBs and many that won was due to their defense, not because of the QB. Hell Matt Ryan (who many consider a "franchise QB") was the NFL MVP last year and didn't win the SB. How do you explain that?

Perhaps. I was hoping for a highlight of him showing his skills rather than talking about them. I suppose the results of him playing like Dez Bryant will remain in the eye of the beholder. I'm looking forward to it.

Still don't know the status of Trevathan. This guy appears to play a number of LB type roles although he listed as an OLB/Pass Rusher(?)

So for a psychologist trained plumber you sure have some crappy bedside manners. Perhaps its a pun, perhaps its not(?) You tell me. But, once again you disagree with how I frame my OPINION and call it "dumb". Regardless of it all, at this point we are arguing semantics. I simply said I would have preferred to see a large body WR, who could fill the role of the #1 WR position (like AJ, like Megatron, like Anquan Boldin, etc) rather than another small framed WR. (Funny that you would mention White as the solution to that big body #1 yet realize he has yet to do anything - didn't I see that somewhere before?) To me we have a guy like this in the name of Braverman. And for the record, I was positive in my support of Pace's choices for UDFA (something you insist I never do) and you still bi*#hed.

I should have qualified it by saying not only big body but true #1 receiver. I don't think "loaded" is the correct term when you only list two. And of those White hasn't played a full season and Meredith is still re-defining himself. If he repeats or betters himself from a year ago then maybe he should be considered a true #1 big body receiver. Until then, having a third option would be better. Most of the other receivers are of the speed variety that help open the field vertically. And a few others are slot/underneath route runners. To get a balance you need receivers that can also go up for contested throws and dominate their receiving area. Sure those TEs you listed could be potential big play receivers but more often than not they will probably be extra blockers or red zone receivers. And of them Sims is really the only one that has shown any down field ability yet.

Not exactly the big body receiver we need but in considering the comps you show I'd say he's definitely worth a look. Why was he not drafted with those comps is definitley worth asking. But the fact he is a relative non-risk as an UDFA is good. I'm starting to question much of what Pace does but I have liked some of his UDFA choices over the years. Timu, Callahan and Meredith being examples.

No, that would be your point; which is minimizing what I have said. My concern (or point) is that Pace invested 3 other picks for a relative unknown in Trubisky. Thus depleting our chance at more players who could potentially contribute to the team. Then he followed that with four more picks of questionable nature. One of those, Jackson, although a member of the venerable Crimson Tide defense, has a concerning injury history. And all this on the heels of drafting a player two years ago in the 1st round, White, who has yet to contribute to the team due to his own injury issues. The other three draft picks were from second tier schools whose competition is a notch or two above High School in most cases. Again, had he decided to pick one perhaps two players from D2; I might not have been as quite flabbergasted. But with all else I have said paired with the other questionable moves? This reeks of Emery and his smuggy approach to drafting and how he thought he was so much smarter than everyone else. Now did I like Tillman? Absolutely. What did I think of him coming out of college? Probably didn't give it much thought. How many other players were drafted that year and of those, how many were from D2 schools?

You beat me to it but totally agree. I would add that in some of the 'lower level' D1 FBS schools, like University of Buffalo (Khalil Mack and others) they at least competed with the better/well known D1 schools thus allowing them to be evaluated at that level. (More on scouting in just a minute). As you pointed out about D2 and lower tier D1 schools, I would concur that there is no question talent can be found there. But once you mortgage away a number of you lower level picks for a relative unknown in Trubisky and then use the remainder of the picks you have left on other unknowns hoping they'll pan out, that's risky. Ballsy yes but foolhardy (IMHO) if you have a team full of needs and are not yet established of where you're going. In regards to scouting; we all know that is where Pace cut his teeth (I might add that so too did Emery). Anyhow, like you said with all the money that is spent in the NFL I'm sure there is a pretty good budget with scouting. With Pace I have no doubt he invests some of that money into his scouting. But when he chooses his scouts for their assignments (or however they do that) you think he spends all his resources on the talent at the D2 schools or in the more competitive market? His draft would tell us that he bucks conventional wisdom. Again, we won't know how it'll pan out until after a few years. You just have to ask yourself; how much more damage or improvement could happen in that time? And another question to ponder, if it doesn't pan out after this season then we potentially lose a pretty respectable coach in Fox as opposed to the lesser known Pace. When I consider Pace's strategy this year, I can't help but think of Da' Coach when he bet it all on Ricky Williams. Thankfully for Ditka, he had a HOF career to fall back on.

But you're an eternal optimist so I'll lose every time with you. lol!!

One other big difference; Davis played for an FBS in Michigan State whereas Shaheen did not.

Or...remember this guy? http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kellen-davis?id=1066