BearFan2000

nfo, you and I are on the same page, and summed up what I was thinking very well. I also like everyone else wanted Lovie gone and when that didn't happen coupled with the epic fail of a press conference and the rumors floating around that we would simply promote Rod and call it good and then bring in some chump to take over as OC. I was in such a bad mood yesterday even before the conference when it was leaked that Lovie would stay and Ron would be the obvious firing, and the likely addition of a DC to relieve Lovie of defensive play calling. I was sick to my stomach and the press conference...... words can't describe how infuriating it was to listen to. Now that the dust has settled I'm trying to take a fresh look at it. But like you when the Rod to DC rumor was squashed I breathed a big sigh of relief. I'd like to see Zimmer be the DC, and Bates the OC and if Love does let them do their thing. Zimmer brings experience beyond Lovie's box and can install a hybrid cover two with elements from various different schemes which is what Ron R. did and that is what worked in 05/06. When Ron was gone in 07 Babich basically did what lovie wanted which was primarily cover 2 with few wrinkles and was very predictable. It only got worse last year as Lovie himself took over play calling. Bringing in a DC who has a wider range of influences and if he's allowed to implement his system. Then the D could once again be decent. Also Zimmer has experience as a DC. If we get a guy like Bates who has a working relationship with Jay and knows him as good as anyone in the league you would already have a starting point. But, it's not just that he knows Jay and has that connection he helped develop Jay..... hello, a guy who can develop QB's.... have we ever had that? Jay is the present but we need to think future and his backups I think that both Hainie and Basenez would benefit under him. But he also has experience in coordinating an Offense. I think he'd be a good fit. If you have crappy assistants and coordinators it doesn't matter how much of a good coach you are. But if you have good assistants and coordinators you can be an average coach and succeed. The hands on people in the staff are the ones that make the biggest difference. If we bring in the right people the formula could work.

I vote for Bates as well, his experience in working with Jay and knowing how to structure an offense around the talents of his players is huge. I think not only for the aspect of Jay but our backups as well. having Haine and Basenez under his tutelage could be a very positive thing he knows how to develop QB's. Jay is in his prime but if we can bring in a guy who could develop guys under Jay then that to me is key. Having stepped back and let my blood pressure come back down a little. What's done is done, Lovie will be back next year. If we do bring in good OC and DC and the team can be successful. Which would mean Lovie would have to allow them to do what they do best. If that can happen would there be potential for long term success? Before I get flamed. Let me make it clear that I don't want Lovie here, and don't think the combination of Ted Phillips, Jerry Angelo, and Lovie is a good structure. But my last name isn't McCaskey so I have no say. Lovie needs to drop the stubborn arrogant attitude. Just because you didn't get canned doesn't mean it's a unanimous vote of confidence. If he learn to be flexible then there's a chance for long-term success, however, that is one big IF. Right now that's all we have as fans.

Zimmer gets my vote of the four. He is aware of the defensive world outside Lovies box. While Lovies guys have yet to discover other forms of defense than the cover 0, Zimmer seems to have the most well rounded knowledge. And he's actually held the position of Coordinator before. The reason Ron's D worked in 2005 & 2006 was because it was a variation of the Cover 2 that had root's in other systems and was a hybrid of sorts. Lovie didn't like that but if he's going to stand at a podium and talk about getting back to the defense of 05/06 then he's going to have to allow someone to do other things and interject new ideas. Lovie is so damn stubborn though. But if Zimmer would be given the reigns to taylor a Defensive scheme to the players we have that has elements of Lovies system but also has elements of other systems as well then I think it can work.

Does it really matter who we get there if they will be made to run Lovie's system.

What I got out of this.... other than a severe drop in IQ points. - Bears management's theme song is Walking Contradiction by Green Day. We need major changes..... we like the people we have. We need to bring in new ideas... we like our system whoever comes in will run out system on both sides of the ball..... It was like listening to someone playing themselves in table tennis each statement seemingly contradicted by the next. Status quo isn't good enough but we like our sturcture and we feel we can win with what we have. :banghead :banghead - We will bring in new OC and new DC but they will be puppets running our system and must agree to do so in order to be considered. So let me ask why bother changing the curtains when the window itself is shattered? - Brian is being snubbed by Mikey and Virginia and shame on them. - As usual no direct answers to any questions outside of vague generalities. - WE ARE SCREWED!!! - Money being an issue was brought up but questions dodged, translation.... you bet money was a big part of the decision. - Lovie is like that kid with the square peg frustrated at the round hole thinking it's gotta work, just need to trust me and I can make it happen. - did I mention we're screwed?

That's a good thought... pass the kool-aid

You're thinking something along the lines of trying to avoid the situation we had with DJ being HC when Angelo came in and being stuck with DJ. In Jerry's case it is kinda a wash because he brought in his own coach and look where that got us. But I can see us wanting to replace HC and GM at the same time. From that stand point is logical if that is the plan so when Angelo is replaced the new GM could bring in his coaching staff and have a real fresh start. But if if your in a "stay the course" mode with the thought of in a year or two completely cleaning house why bring in a new OC if you are considering bringing in a new GM who will inevitably bring in a new coach and new staff next year or the year after. It would explain the thought of elevating Rod so technically you are staying the course there. I think it's possible they felt they had to make some changes to appease the fans so they can say they made changes. But they may be prepping for a real house cleaning. But the question remains why wait to do it if it's likely to happen baring significant improvement of the product on the field?

This makes no sense either... The TE's have been fairly solid for us under Boras. So we dump what is working, retain and even promote what isn't working... Are they trying to make the Bears worse? What next fire Toub because he's too good at his job? Shouldn't the restructure of a staff have the goal of keeping what's good and looking to upgrade where possible? Seems we are doing the opposite.

Two words...... They're cheap

These moves were predicted on this board. We all had a hunch that Ron would be the scapegoat, management would go the cheap route and keep Lovie, and some here speculated that Rod would be elevated to DC..... These moves scream cheap and we don't care about winning. Fire OC, keep Failing HC, promote someone already on the payroll to DC who has virtually no experience running a D, we'll likely hire someone's buddy to be OC who's never done it before (maybe even someone in house like Pep)....... Then in the off-season between 2010 and 2011 after another "disappointing" season they may do what they should have done this off-season and clean house. That's my prediction that next year at this time we'll be right back where we are now. Here's to a shitty 2010 Bears season.... I guess the fans have to be storming Halas Hall with torches and pitch forks before they see the error of their ways. DJ had a shorter leash than this Lovie must have quite the photo album of compromising pictures. The case to fire him is stacked yet he gets another pass. Considering that we'll likely bring in someone at OC who doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground (not that Ron did), and I hate to say this but I'd have rather us stuck with turner than get someone with no experience... and I would bet on it that we will get someone who's never done it before at any level. Rod Marinelli will be handcuffed and forced to run Lovies fatally flawed cover 0 defense. With Lovie as HC does it really matter who carries the DC title??? I mean really? And if it fails again next year, and it will, Rod will be the one to blame even though he's forced to run Lovie's system. With Lovie still as head coach prepare to watch unprepared players play uninspired football until it doesn't matter anymore and it's once again "save my job time." This organization (if you can even call it that) makes me sick. What have we as fans done to deserve a team that always sinks to the lowest common denominator. We deserve better.

Reporting on the score that there will be a press conference tomorrow 1/5/10 at 2pm Today all media, assistants, and players were gone and a meeting closed door meeting with high level brass to discuss the future of the Bears. While most of us feel there's enough daming evidence to justify giving the axe to Lovie and his staff. Who knows how it will shake out.

So true, not everyone is like our GM who will give a 2nd rounder away for a backup level player.

IMHO Jays numbers are tainted by bad play calling, poor protection, and lack of run game. The last two games we did all three of these things better and the difference in Cutler's performance was night and day. Go figure. If the line played like that more this year and we had decent success running, and Ron actually catered to Cutler's strengths, you could argue that Jay's numbers would be much better. Of the two QB's Orton benefited from a ground game and a good O-Line. While Cutler didn't yet his numbers are close Orton's. Makes me think that had we still had Orton we'd have seen worse stats for our QB.

Same here till I officially hear that he's gone or back I won't give up hope that we will clean house. But I wouldn't bet on him getting fired. This exactly what I'm getting at here, The more involved Lovie gets, the worse this team gets. The only way we can succeed with Lovie as HC is that he is restricted to a more hands off role. But if your HC has to be handcuffed for your team to succeed you must ask what's the point of having him as your HC?

I think we have good talent at WR. In the last two games Jay has thrown 8 TDs and 0 INT The difference? 1. Protection, the Line has given him protection and given him time to do his thing. 2. Play calling, we saw roll outs, bootlegs and plays that cater to Jays strengths And low and behold Jay looks like the guy we traded for with the WR's we had all year (mostly) IMHO you fix the O-Line you go a long ways towards fixing some of the other areas. A lot of our problems on offense are merely symptoms and residual effects of bad O-Line play. I think the offense can make good strides once the O-Line is fixed. Right now it's hard to truely evaluate our backs and recievers. If there's no time to make your reads because you are getting malled as soon as you get the ball you can't expect your QB to excell. I don't care who it is. Without time he is forced to rush his reads and in some cases hope guys are where they should be and take chances. If the Line doesn't create holes for the backs it's tough sledding and in turn puts more pressure on the QB. Honestly the fact that we have gotten the production out of our WR's that we have is amazing considering the peripheral issues that exist. I find that to be encouraging to the point where I think we can make it work with Jay and this group. There are players to build around.

While I would like to see us clean house including possibly Jerry and getting in a new staff that has experience and can cultivate the talent on the roster. I think it would be in the best interest of our team considering we need to make some choices with Jay Cutler in mind. Bringing in new coordinators for a coach on the hot seat will likely not yield the best results and then the following season if they do decide to bring in a new HC he will want his own guys. Giving our franchise QB 3 OC's in three seasons. I have a feeling Lovie will be back but do believe that Jerry will demand that we get an OC and DC (preferably one who doesn't subscribe to the flawed cover 0 defense). That said if we do in fact keep Lovie but bring in a new OC and DC. And we happen to bring quality coaches at those positions to the point where Lovie is basically an overseer and the Coordinators are given the reigns to do their job without meddling I think it can work. I know that defensively Lovie is stuck in cover 0 land and even made Chico stick with a form of his defensive preference. Who says that the coaches all have to get along like buddy buddy to succeed. They just all need to be good at what they are paid to do. Ditka and Ryan didn't get along at all but that didn't stop them from winning a SB. If Jerry does keep Lovie I think he needs to see if we can find a combination of coaches that can turn us into a winner long term. If there is a scenario that we can win with Lovie as our HC then I'm ok with that. If following the 2006 season if we had continued being a serious contender the past three season I doubt many of us would calling for his head. Now that's not the case and we have gotten worse each successive year. But look at the staff's evolution the past three seasons. Following the SB Chico is let go, and Babich (Lovies buddy) is promoted to DC under the guise that he can carry on the D as well as Chico did. That failed miserably as the defense deteriorated putting more pressure on a struggling offense led by Grossman who's play continued to decline and we played QB merry go round. Then this offseason we go out and get Cutler now Ron has the QB that he's been lacking to make his system work. Babich is demoted and Lovie takes over the D.... the D gets worse. The less involved Lovie is in the coordinators duties or meddling the better. I think it can work if we bring in the right Coordinators and they are allowed to do things their way and Lovie is willing to respect that unless it's necessary to. Bottom line of what I'm getting at is if Lovie stays I would prefer they have something more long term as far as coordinators so we aren't back here next year again only to clean house and start over. I think in the right situation Lovie could be a decent HC but for him the less control he has the better. So if he stays I would prefer a more hands off approach.

I know we've been over this with a backhoe but now that the season actually is over what does everyone's crystal ball say?

...... hmmmm tough one must think illogically to guess this one right. A, if we are showcasing him to try to bolster the the chances of trading him and letting some other team deal with a return specialist who's head is filled with the illusion that he's a #1 receiver. B, a look at wheter it's viable to get back what we lost by removing him from full time return duties.... can he recapture the magic of his first two seasons? C, I don't buy this one at all for the reasons you state we have have other bodies that have done well in the return game. Being that C is the most illogical I'm going to go with C..... final answer.

We abandoned it because after all they would probably figure out a way to stop it anyway. Today the Bears did what I figured theyd do they went back to how they played prior to last week. Yes they won by two scores 37-23, but a good team would have beat detroit much more soundly. Heck, I fell asleep watching the game it was that boring, and not in a good way. Looked like two crappy teams battling it out till the slightly less crappy team wins. Being that I slept most of the game I can't really comment on all that happened since I was only awake for bits and pieces here and there. Well, one positive this agonizing season is over now and we now look forward to finding out the fate of our coaches. Everyone in Chicago-land and those of us who are in other parts of the country are crossing our fingers and hoping, wishing, and praying that the team does the right thing and fires the whole coaching staff and bring in a real coaching staff. There is talent here to build around but the Bears desperately need coaches who can actually cultivate that talent into a winning team. The announcers again today were making excuses for Lovie and his staff. When you are a casual observer and don't actually follow this team you don't know what your talking about. One of them made the comment that the Bears are a much better team than they've shown which is actually an indictment of this staff. All of their positive fluff about last weeks things they liked about this game should not overshadow what has happened prior to last week. Jay's final stats for the season Comp---Att----%-------YDS------TD----INT 336-----555---60.5-----3,666----27----26

goodbye 2009 a long strange year in many ways. Happy New Year to all here. Hope everyone had a safe and happy new years!!!

I'm with you there, I respect the way he plays the game. The NFL could use more old school guys like that who play the game the way it should be played. But that said I have a strong dislike for him that borders on hatred. For many years he was a thorn in the side for the Bears, his off the field magic 8ball indecision rubs me the wrong way and it's why I didn't want him here. The arse kissing that he gets by everyone including game officials is beyond sickening which is partly what made his un-retirements so irritating. I thought the worst of it was over when Madden retired but the flame has only spread and now everyone is doing it. I for one hope the Vikings ship goes down in flames. I never ever want to see Favre win another super bowl. Especially not with the vikings. You take one thing that you hate and you add something else that you hate and you have a real desire to see things crumble. It looks like the Vikings are in self destruct mode. Bickering between Coach and QB (no matter how much either denies it). Their play as late is starting to resemble past collapses and chokes. I will laugh so hard if they get beat soundly in their first playoff game this season. Not that it would make me forget our own collapse but at least it would help dull the pain temporarily.

with all the injuries I had forgotten about Pisa. While we have limited action from him as a Bear to go by I do think it's worth keeping him provided he can get and stay healthy. Much of this year has been what we pictured vs reality for this thread I'll stick with the one at hand. Going in our LB trio was to be Briggs, Urlacher, and Pisa. In reality it became Briggs, Hilly, Roach only one opening day starter left. I think that Pisa has enough upside to keep him around and see if next year we can see the starting LB corp intact.

Had the RROD and did the X-Clamp repair. It lives again!!! It took less than an hour to do the repair. Now I have two working Xbox 360s. Kinda fun to do too. I may buy some dead ones on ebay and fix them and resell as X-Clamp repaired.

That indeed is good news, looked ugly on the replay and wasn't necessary Knox was laying on the ground with defenders in the area he wasn't going to get back up and run. While legal I think it was dirty. wasn't iglesias a 3rd rounder? sad that we will enter the 16th game of the season and it will be his first real game snaps.

the damming evidence is all over the place. How long did Jay lobby for DA because he is a big target, has good hands, will go after the football and make big catches. It took an injury to golden boy Hester to get DA real playing time and all he's done is make plays How long have we known that a big strength of Jays is to roll out and move the pocket. Took Ron 14 games to figure that out and move the launch point. How long have we all known Jay has a rocket for an arm and it took Ron 14 games to utilize that rather than try to turn him into a dink and dunk QB which plays to his weaknesses not his strengths. It took an injury to the ineffective Pacemaker to get Williams in the game and what does he do at his natural position (the position we drafted him to play nonetheless) but shut down one of the best DE in the league. I saw a line last night that actually gave Jay more than a split second to get rid of the ball. He actually had time to scan the field and go through his progressions. Looked like the guy we traded for. Protection schemes were better called. The overall team effort was 100x better than anything we've seen all year. They looked motivated and prepared. 14 games in and they finally look like the team many of us envisioned last offseason. It irks me that when there's nothing left to play for the coaches can get the team fired up to play but when there was something to play for the Bears looked uninspired and not interested. If we'd have played like this all year you can guarandamtee it that we'd be in the playoffs. That's the thing that sticks with me. If ownership is honest in its assessment this is the conclusion they must come to. Why couldn't we have played like this all year, why 14 games in and out of the playoff picture do we now show intestinal fortitude??? But sadly I fear as many of us here do that they will use this as reason enough to retain Lovie and Jerry. Ron will be the scapegoat not that he doesn't deserve to be, and we will have the lowest bidder at OC and DC next season. No one of any quality is going to want to come to work for a coach already on the hot seat. We'll be stuck with the crap of the litter and wind up back in the same spot looking towards the 2011 season when we may actually get a new coach which will undoubtedly be a lowest bidder first timer or virtual no name... rinse and repeat. We are all hoping that the Ownership does the right thing but lack any measure of confidence they will.