DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Science may have a thing or two to say about this. http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-...-science-video/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Science may have a thing or two to say about this. http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-...-science-video/ Pretty dumb article. The author obviously has an agenda and appears to be from the NE area (because most of the scientific sources are too). The author does nothing to discredit the 'what if' factor of the Colts footballs not showing proof of deflation other than to suggest a hypothetical scandal of his own: that the Colts must have over inflated them. Wow! Talk about a cub reporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Pretty dumb article. The author obviously has an agenda and appears to be from the NE area (because most of the scientific sources are too). The author does nothing to discredit the 'what if' factor of the Colts footballs not showing proof of deflation other than to suggest a hypothetical scandal of his own: that the Colts must have over inflated them. Wow! Talk about a cub reporter. I don't really think so. No focus has been made on the other footballs at all. Part of that is because the NFL has a range of acceptable footballs and no one complained about the other. I think it is highly probably that the footballs lost at least 1 PSI due to the elements (if not more). I have two friends that are physicist who have been blabbing about this for a while that this whole story is a joke. To them it is simple math. I presume some of this will come out when the NFL releases the rest of the evidence. But of course, everyone will have already tarnished the Pats in the court of public opinion because of certain things that leaked out in the investigation (vs. all of the facts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I don't really think so. No focus has been made on the other footballs at all. Part of that is because the NFL has a range of acceptable footballs and no one complained about the other. I think it is highly probably that the footballs lost at least 1 PSI due to the elements (if not more). I have two friends that are physicist who have been blabbing about this for a while that this whole story is a joke. To them it is simple math. I presume some of this will come out when the NFL releases the rest of the evidence. But of course, everyone will have already tarnished the Pats in the court of public opinion because of certain things that leaked out in the investigation (vs. all of the facts). Their reputation precedes them. They are not being tarnished because of this incident by itself. Ask your physicist friends why 11 and not 12 and why was there nothing made of the 12 the Colts had? Look, we all have opinions. Even doctors and scientists. A lot of the time they're wrong. I think it was said recently that just because you go to an Ivy League school doesn't make you the smartest in the room. If you graduate 100th of a 100 doctorate students, you're still a doctor. As it is, it appears nothing really will be done until after the Super Bowl. So I guess we'll have to sit back and enjoy the ride. Go Bears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Their reputation precedes them. They are not being tarnished because of this incident by itself. Ask your physicist friends why 11 and not 12 and why was there nothing made of the 12 the Colts had? Look, we all have opinions. Even doctors and scientists. A lot of the time they're wrong. I think it was said recently that just because you go to an Ivy League school doesn't make you the smartest in the room. If you graduate 100th of a 100 doctorate students, you're still a doctor. As it is, it appears nothing really will be done until after the Super Bowl. So I guess we'll have to sit back and enjoy the ride. Go Bears. We know absolutely nothing of the Colts footballs. Nothing has been reported about them. The Colts footballs were not in question. The Colts football also did not have to be at the same PSI level as the Pats footballs. I don't know those facts nor does anyone else so speculating on them isn't the answer. Here is another article from a reporter from the sun sentinel who did his own, albeit not overly scientific test, which resulted in the football losing 1.95 lb's of pressure. Hell, maybe the Colts footballs were stored somewhere, none of us know as nothing has been reported. Do we know if the league even checked the Colts footballs at half time? http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-d...125-column.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Sadly, there are no winners in this mess regardless. 1. The one thing we know if the NFL is guilty. Guilty of shoddy implementation of law. Shoddy refs that should have noticed after every down feeling the ball. Shoddy investigation, too slow and not all encompassing. This topped with the shoddy care of the Rice case is just too much. It basically continues to tarnish Goodell's and the NFL's reputation. Tacked in with Sherman's allegations that Goodell is in Kraft's pocket (it doesn't take a player to notice how many nice dinner parties one gets invited to) along with the Raven's Biscotti from other sources...really make this thing opaque and filthy. They need a transparent commissioner that isn't in anyone's pockets. 2. We also know the Pats are shady. We don't know for certain if they are cheaters, etc. But , we do know they certainly invite skepticism. They did admit to spygate even this past weekend. So, given that, anything else that comes from them even remotely smelling of unfair practices, is bad for their reputation. Why such a strong team would continue to push the envelope in this manner is mystifying. I read today from Peter King of a story where before the Super Bowl w/ Miami and Oakland, Larry Czonka found the Raiders playbook before the game. He passed it along ot his Coordinator, who passed it along to Shula. After getting beat, Czonka asked the coordinator how could we lose given we had the playbook? Easy, when given the book, Shula promptly threw it in the trash and said we do not cheat. Class always wins in the long run. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/26/super-bowl-4...vinovich-ref/3/ 3. Most this will be forgotten after a while. Unless the Pats win. Then this will be continually brought up by anyone who is not a Pat's fan. Right or wrong, it will. And when it comes time for HoF, etc. This will rear its ugly head yet again. Forget being compared to the all time greats. Shula, Lombardi, Walsh, Halas, etc. Billicheck is not in their ranks by virtue off all the allegations right or wrong. Same with Brady. Montana still reigns supreme. Just my thoughts... I don't really think so. No focus has been made on the other footballs at all. Part of that is because the NFL has a range of acceptable footballs and no one complained about the other. I think it is highly probably that the footballs lost at least 1 PSI due to the elements (if not more). I have two friends that are physicist who have been blabbing about this for a while that this whole story is a joke. To them it is simple math. I presume some of this will come out when the NFL releases the rest of the evidence. But of course, everyone will have already tarnished the Pats in the court of public opinion because of certain things that leaked out in the investigation (vs. all of the facts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Welp, looks like I am wrong. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/1...e-investigation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Welp, looks like I am wrong. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/1...e-investigation And I further note, if it turns out that a Pats employee doctored the balls, than as far as I'm concerned at a minimum, Brady knew about it and orchestrated it. Don't know if Beli did / didn't but at a minimum Brady would have known. No one is messing with the Pats footballs without Brady's blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 And I further note, if it turns out that a Pats employee doctored the balls, than as far as I'm concerned at a minimum, Brady knew about it and orchestrated it. Don't know if Beli did / didn't but at a minimum Brady would have known. No one is messing with the Pats footballs without Brady's blessing. As Mad said, this is a very unfortunate incident and in the end no one wins. Even if the 'scandal' does not end up being more than one individuals agenda (not likely) the NFL at some point will add yet more regulations. And because of that these regualtions will continue to pile until the game isn't true to itself any longer. It almost has to. The other unfortunate parts to this is that this equipment manager will be put under intense scrutiny and depending on his/her ethical makeup may bear the brunt of the blame. The very fact that I suggest there is a conspiracy in just that aspect of this makes it messier than it had to be. Tom Brady will carry the burden of truth, whether he spills it or not. I'm fairly convinced that Belichick may actually not know a lot about the goings on this instant, but he too has been tarnished if only because of past practices. This is unfortunate all around and on so many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 As Mad said, this is a very unfortunate incident and in the end no one wins. Even if the 'scandal' does not end up being more than one individuals agenda (not likely) the NFL at some point will add yet more regulations. And because of that these regualtions will continue to pile until the game isn't true to itself any longer. It almost has to. The other unfortunate parts to this is that this equipment manager will be put under intense scrutiny and depending on his/her ethical makeup may bear the brunt of the blame. The very fact that I suggest there is a conspiracy in just that aspect of this makes it messier than it had to be. Tom Brady will carry the burden of truth, whether he spills it or not. I'm fairly convinced that Belichick may actually not know a lot about the goings on this instant, but he too has been tarnished if only because of past practices. This is unfortunate all around and on so many levels. It is absurd the NFL didn't figure this out sooner (if it really is a big deal). They should control the footballs, just like the NBA / MLB do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 So Alaskan, my buddy actually has a response to your question on the Colts balls and why they didn't deflate. My buddy said you could engineer the balls to have more deflation by inflating them with hot air and ultimately you could set the temperatures of the air and essentially pass your "smog" check if you may and than as a result of using hotter than typical air, see the ball deflate more significantly due to the elements / temperatures (because the balls started with a much higher internal temperature). So in theory, the Pats and Colts could have inflated the balls with air that were different temperatures. Pats could have used air in excess of 100 degrees while Colts used a standard contraption with a standard scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 So Alaskan, my buddy actually has a response to your question on the Colts balls and why they didn't deflate. My buddy said you could engineer the balls to have more deflation by inflating them with hot air and ultimately you could set the temperatures of the air and essentially pass your "smog" check if you may and than as a result of using hotter than typical air, see the ball deflate more significantly due to the elements / temperatures (because the balls started with a much higher internal temperature). So in theory, the Pats and Colts could have inflated the balls with air that were different temperatures. Pats could have used air in excess of 100 degrees while Colts used a standard contraption with a standard scenario. I never said I was the smartest guy in the room. (I assure you in not). But without going into too much 'science' that would be an interesting theory to follow up on. However with the recent revelation from within the NE organization AND a strong possibility of video evidence supporting that, anything more could be moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I never said I was the smartest guy in the room. (I assure you in not). But without going into too much 'science' that would be an interesting theory to follow up on. However with the recent revelation from within the NE organization AND a strong possibility of video evidence supporting that, anything more could be moot. Haha, seems like Brady should have hired my buddy who could have done it within the "rules" and gotten the same results, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 On a sidenote, as I mentioned, be leary of media reports. Well PFT is reporting that 10 of the 12 footballs were under-inflated by 1 PSI (not 2). http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/...or-deflategate/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 On a sidenote, as I mentioned, be leary of media reports. Well PFT is reporting that 10 of the 12 footballs were under-inflated by 1 PSI (not 2). http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/...or-deflategate/ Which makes it way less of a big deal because 1 psi is close enough to be within the margin of error when you account for the weather conditions. However, it seems like they may have been doing this for a long time: http://www.wsj.com/articles/patriots-alway...ball-1422054846 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Which makes it way less of a big deal because 1 psi is close enough to be within the margin of error when you account for the weather conditions. However, it seems like they may have been doing this for a long time: http://www.wsj.com/articles/patriots-alway...ball-1422054846 That could be explained by their practices as well though. I have heard many ex players talk about how much Beli would make them practice in the various elements, etc, and how much him and his assistants would drill ball control into their heads (more so than any other coach they had played with). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Science may have a thing or two to say about this. http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-...-science-video/ I will wait to hear the physics professor explain why there was no similar loss of air pressure on the other side of the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I will wait to hear the physics professor explain why there was no similar loss of air pressure on the other side of the field. See my other post. Pats could have circumvented (but still met) rules by inflating balls with higher temperature air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just my two cents: I have played in many games where the team we were playing used a completely different ball. In highschool a few teams used rubber balls where we used leather. Never did i think they may have an unfair advantage. All I was worried about was beating the shit out of the man across from me. In all of my highschool and college games never did I worry about the psi in a ball. I dont even think they checked the psi on any game balls in college or highschool. In college everyone had to use the same type of ball, each team had their ball to use but all were the same. The balls were inflated at halftime, the Pats beat the crap of the Colts in the 2nd half. This really is a non issue. Football is not won by how many PSI are in a football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Do not care I'm honestly sick of hearing about this everyday. We have a potentially epic Superbowl at the end of this week and I'd love to hear more about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Football is not won by how many PSI are in a football. I think the solution is to force both teams to use the exact same set of balls, eliminating catering to QB's and their preferences. It's simply dumb that this is how it's done and it led to one side, it appears, taking advantage of the situation. If this were a one time thing, only the Indy game, I'd agree with you 110%. But it appears they've been doing this for a long time now and small advantages can be the difference in games. The Baltimore game the week before the Indy game, for example, comes to mind. Or you make the acceptable inflation range wider. I don't care if Brady wants the balls more deflated, I doubt many in the league would. Then again, if it gives Pats WR's and RB's a better grip on the ball than other teams, helping them to have fewer turnovers, it might be a BIG problem. At the end of the day I'm enjoying the cheater reputation the Pats are getting because while I respect them as an organization, I don't like most of their team. Arrogant dicks, all. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of assholes. Whatever the rules are, all teams should be forced to follow them. If they're caught cheating, the Commissioner has a duty to punish them. I think in this case that'll come in the form of lost draft picks. Just my guess. He isn't going to let them call out some ball boy as their patsy and let this go. But we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think the solution is to force both teams to use the exact same set of balls, eliminating catering to QB's and their preferences. It's simply dumb that this is how it's done and it led to one side, it appears, taking advantage of the situation. If this were a one time thing, only the Indy game, I'd agree with you 110%. But it appears they've been doing this for a long time now and small advantages can be the difference in games. The Baltimore game the week before the Indy game, for example, comes to mind. Or you make the acceptable inflation range wider. I don't care if Brady wants the balls more deflated, I doubt many in the league would. Then again, if it gives Pats WR's and RB's a better grip on the ball than other teams, helping them to have fewer turnovers, it might be a BIG problem. At the end of the day I'm enjoying the cheater reputation the Pats are getting because while I respect them as an organization, I don't like most of their team. Arrogant dicks, all. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of assholes. Whatever the rules are, all teams should be forced to follow them. If they're caught cheating, the Commissioner has a duty to punish them. I think in this case that'll come in the form of lost draft picks. Just my guess. He isn't going to let them call out some ball boy as their patsy and let this go. But we'll see. I agree, make it real simple everyone uses the same balls! You think the Pnut punch was ever stopped because of a deflated ball? Or when a defender puts his helmet on the ball, you think the psi change weather the ball came out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Agreed. Yes to both your PSI questions. Peanut punch is predicated on the ball not being so malleable. It's easier to knock an inflated handball out of someone's hands, than a deflated one. Football is no different. It's not impossible, but there is an advantage ot the ball carrier. From my limited time playing football, I know that a softer ball is harder to dislodge. Not impossible, but harder. And when dealing with the extreme strength in the NFL on both sides, an advantage like that could be why the Pat's don't lose many turnovers at home... Bottom line. Have a buddy hold a basketball and try to punch it out. You probably will succeed 10% of the time. Not try it with a bean bag. You will probably never succeed. The reality is it does make it harder...the question is depending on how much less, does it truly have an impact? We don't really know. But logic dictates that it would. Boxing is the same. when I punch a bag that inflated, it moves, when it's not...it kind of just crushes inside. It simply had to make a difference of some percentage. And football is a game of inches... I agree, make it real simple everyone uses the same balls! You think the Pnut punch was ever stopped because of a deflated ball? Or when a defender puts his helmet on the ball, you think the psi change weather the ball came out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I agree, make it real simple everyone uses the same balls! You think the Pnut punch was ever stopped because of a deflated ball? Or when a defender puts his helmet on the ball, you think the psi change weather the ball came out? Problem is, the answer to that is "maybe". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I disagree. No Bears. Not epic. Do not care I'm honestly sick of hearing about this everyday. We have a potentially epic Superbowl at the end of this week and I'd love to hear more about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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