AZ54 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 We'll see. Best offers always come after negotiations break off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 You just said you needed a great D to win with a game manager. Then you say when he had a good D he won. That confuses me. So basically, you take the 3 years that he had a winning record. You ignore the other 6 years, and blame it on bad D's. Then say, hey look he has a good winning percentage with good D's. That is like me saying Cutler is only 34-45, and well below .500 when he doesn't have an elite D around him. Which of course, lead to 1 playoff appearance and win, and winning 1 of 11 games against the Packers. Which again, shouldn't matter, as you just said a game manager can't win without an elite D because apparently he can't either. Edit: had to fix the numbers, didn't give him credit for enough losses the first time I posted I don't think that's fair. I know the NFL hinges on QB play, but the Bears have been a mess for the majority of the time Cutler has been under center. What you've basically done is blame someone driving the car for not going far enough, while ignoring the fact that either the tires are flat or the engine needs work. 2014 - Historically atrocious defense; OL regressed 2013 - Horrible defense; injury shortened 2012 - Dumpster rages on with Webb, Louis, Spencer; good D; pathetic draft 2011 - Dumpster fire continues to burn; injury shortened; virtually no TE; pathetic draft 2010 - Dumpster fire of an OL (Omiyale AND Webb); led the NFL in sacks; bad draft and no 1-2 rounders 2009 - OL played very poorly; decent draft but virtually no 1-3 rounders So you have four straight years of absolute trash protecting Cutler, and then when that starts to get figured out, the defense absolutely implodes. WTF was he supposed to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't think that's fair. I know the NFL hinges on QB play, but the Bears have been a mess for the majority of the time Cutler has been under center. What you've basically done is blame someone driving the car for not going far enough, while ignoring the fact that either the tires are flat or the engine needs work. 2014 - Historically atrocious defense; OL regressed 2013 - Horrible defense; injury shortened 2012 - Dumpster rages on with Webb, Louis, Spencer; good D; pathetic draft 2011 - Dumpster fire continues to burn; injury shortened; virtually no TE; pathetic draft 2010 - Dumpster fire of an OL (Omiyale AND Webb); led the NFL in sacks; bad draft and no 1-2 rounders 2009 - OL played very poorly; decent draft but virtually no 1-3 rounders So you have four straight years of absolute trash protecting Cutler, and then when that starts to get figured out, the defense absolutely implodes. WTF was he supposed to do? What's not fair? He took your "dumpster fire" years, and said Cutler is 27-13 when the D is good. All I did was point out the record from the rest of Cutler's career, when he claims the D's weren't good. He made the comment of Cutler's record when the D is "good" right after saying that a game manager can only win with a good D. By his logic, the same holds true of Cutler. I think that's fair. And I don't want to get into 9 years of excuses about Cutler with you. It's pointless. Right now, we just to see if Pace stands pat or moves on. It's decision time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 If Cutler stays there is no doubt whatsoever that a message has been sent to him and the rest of the team. He is not going to be catered to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 What's not fair? He took your "dumpster fire" years, and said Cutler is 27-13 when the D is good. All I did was point out the record from the rest of Cutler's career, when he claims the D's weren't good. He made the comment of Cutler's record when the D is "good" right after saying that a game manager can only win with a good D. By his logic, the same holds true of Cutler. I think that's fair. And I don't want to get into 9 years of excuses about Cutler with you. It's pointless. Right now, we just to see if Pace stands pat or moves on. It's decision time. It's not fair because you're placing so much blame on Cutler for win percentage when it's obvious that the team had massive holes for pretty much every year he's been in Chicago. This is a team game, and you minimize that aspect in your anti-Cutler sentiment. You and I both know Cutler hasn't been what was expected, but the W/L record blame while he has been in Chicago deserves to be spread around quite a bit. That's what I'm saying. The other aspect of this is what Cutler needs and what a game-manager needs. Cutler needs either a good OL and average defense, or simply a good defense to succeed. The former means he'll put up points and outscore the other team. The former means the defense will do the heavy lifting. A game-manager, on the other hand, doesn't usually win with the first scenario because he doesn't score enough to make up for the average defense. Call them excuses if you want, but I'll call them reasons. It's fairly obvious that pretty much no QB would have had great success in Chicago over Cutler's tenure, which also included multiple scheme changes. I'm not even a Cutler apologist. I don't care one way or another about whether the Bears keep him. I think he's probably our best QB since McMahon, and it worries me to potentially go back to the dark years of Moses Moreno types, but I actually hope the trade goes through just for salary purposes. I'd rather see a Brad Johnson type at QB with an 1985 defense. I've been on the OL/DL bandwagon since birth, which is why it's been infuriating how the Bears have searched for success. Build a nasty OL, and any NFL-caliber QB succeeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Neither do turn overs, even if you have an elite D. Trust me, I want a great QB. My post was replying to the idea that the Cutler "haters" and negative Nancy's will never be satisfied unless the next QB is Elway which is silly. Not entirely what I said but let's just go with this. What will happen if we have a game manager? Certain element of the board will start claiming the offense is too predictable. It's boring. Why can't our GM find talented WR's? Certain folks will grow more envious of teams with great QB's. Why are the Bears always stuck in the past? Look at what Team X is doing! Our GM sucks! Look, I honestly don't see what all the drama is about? We're all on the same page that Cutler is overpaid given his production. The boys who gave him that deal are gone. New management, who looks like they've got their shit together, has assembled what looks like one of the best coaching staffs in the entire NFL and THEY are working to put the best product on the field they can. If THEY decide that for now, giving Jay another shot is the right thing to do, so be it. I realize everyone here is a football genius and could've guided the Bears to multiple Super Bowls in the last 20 years if only given the chance... But seeing as you aren't in charge, maybe we should see what the new staff can do before we condemn them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 All I'm saying is you can win with the guy if situations are right, and that has been proven with lesser talent on offense, Can you also win with a game manager and an elite D? Yes, but right now Jay is our QB. I think you could win with Jay with a good defense, the defense has to be elite to win with a game manager type. ....I'm not surprised at all to Jay our QB for 2015, and I think he'll be solid under Gase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 All I'm saying is you can win with the guy if situations are right, and that has been proven with lesser talent on offense, Can you also win with a game manager and an elite D? Yes, but right now Jay is our QB. I think you could win with Jay with a good defense, the defense has to be elite to win with a game manager type. ....I'm not surprised at all to Jay our QB for 2015, and I think he'll be solid under Gase. My biggest qualm with Jay, and others have also said it... He doesn't seem to have much leadership ability. And that's critical at QB. From the jerky look on his face to the way he handles the press, addresses his guys on the sidelines, etc. I'm not sold that he has "IT" and when crunch time comes and he's the difference between winning and losing, he'll fold. Other less talents have had much higher leadership abilities. Jim McMahon who was a skilled QB probably didn't have all the tools Jay does but I'd take him in a heartbeat over Jay. So, we agree, you can win with Jay at QB but the concerns about him being the face of the franchise, being a leader of men, being the guy who can win the big one... Those are all real. If we had better options for 2015, I'd explore them. I'm just not convinced there's a better answer available to the team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Kyle @Ky1eLong 26m26 minutes ago My allegiance is to the one true king of the north - he's got my back I've got his %6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 What's not fair? He took your "dumpster fire" years, and said Cutler is 27-13 when the D is good. All I did was point out the record from the rest of Cutler's career, when he claims the D's weren't good. He made the comment of Cutler's record when the D is "good" right after saying that a game manager can only win with a good D. By his logic, the same holds true of Cutler. I think that's fair. And I don't want to get into 9 years of excuses about Cutler with you. It's pointless. Right now, we just to see if Pace stands pat or moves on. It's decision time. Sustained success is what Pace is going for. What do most if not all NFL teams that have had sustained success have??? A great QB. The only other way is if you have a decent QB and an elite defense. As far as records go, its a team sport. You cant put too much credit or blame on the QB for the record. Cutlers time here has been a rollercoaster of shitty situations with terrible OLine play, 4 or 5 years with zero weapons, shitty OC(Martz and Tice) which all goes back to the front office and coaching staff. With Cutler being who he is you cant expect him to carry an offense with bad oline play, bad scheme and terrible WR. Last year I expected Cutler and the Bears to finally put it all together. Oline was shotty, the scheme was predictable and it went south real fast. Cutler has his faults, he has his positives. His contract is a problem if you wanted to cut him. IF Pace wanted to trade him and get rid of the contract he could. Looking at what is out there in terms of FA qb's and this years draft I want to see what Gase can do with Cutler. CUTLER IS WHO HE IS AND AFTER 9 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE PACE AND GASE SHOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH HIM TO WIN. Gase was considered for a couple of HC jobs. He is suppose to be one of the great offensive minds, lets see what he can do with Cutler. If there was a better option out there then I would be all for moving on. As of right now there is not a better option. Maybe the Bears do target a QB in the draft, Im all for bringing him along in the same manner as A Rodgers. Give the guy a year or two to learn the system and become comfortable in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sustained success is what Pace is going for. What do most if not all NFL teams that have had sustained success have??? A great QB. The only other way is if you have a decent QB and an elite defense. As far as records go, its a team sport. You cant put too much credit or blame on the QB for the record. Cutlers time here has been a rollercoaster of shitty situations with terrible OLine play, 4 or 5 years with zero weapons, shitty OC(Martz and Tice) which all goes back to the front office and coaching staff. With Cutler being who he is you cant expect him to carry an offense with bad oline play, bad scheme and terrible WR. Last year I expected Cutler and the Bears to finally put it all together. Oline was shotty, the scheme was predictable and it went south real fast. Cutler has his faults, he has his positives. His contract is a problem if you wanted to cut him. IF Pace wanted to trade him and get rid of the contract he could. Looking at what is out there in terms of FA qb's and this years draft I want to see what Gase can do with Cutler. CUTLER IS WHO HE IS AND AFTER 9 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE PACE AND GASE SHOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH HIM TO WIN. Gase was considered for a couple of HC jobs. He is suppose to be one of the great offensive minds, lets see what he can do with Cutler. If there was a better option out there then I would be all for moving on. As of right now there is not a better option. Maybe the Bears do target a QB in the draft, Im all for bringing him along in the same manner as A Rodgers. Give the guy a year or two to learn the system and become comfortable in the NFL. Could not agree more. If Cutler is not the QB we have no hope for the O. There just are no other realistic options this year that would allow any possibility of winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Could not agree more. If Cutler is not the QB we have no hope for the O. There just are no other realistic options this year that would allow any possibility of winning. At this point, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Very well said... My biggest qualm with Jay, and others have also said it... He doesn't seem to have much leadership ability. And that's critical at QB. From the jerky look on his face to the way he handles the press, addresses his guys on the sidelines, etc. I'm not sold that he has "IT" and when crunch time comes and he's the difference between winning and losing, he'll fold. Other less talents have had much higher leadership abilities. Jim McMahon who was a skilled QB probably didn't have all the tools Jay does but I'd take him in a heartbeat over Jay. So, we agree, you can win with Jay at QB but the concerns about him being the face of the franchise, being a leader of men, being the guy who can win the big one... Those are all real. If we had better options for 2015, I'd explore them. I'm just not convinced there's a better answer available to the team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 If he's around, I'm really glad Kyle supports him fully. Kyle @Ky1eLong 26m26 minutes ago My allegiance is to the one true king of the north - he's got my back I've got his %6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Make all the excuses you want for or against Jay. He needs to pull his head out and stop doing what he can to lead the NFL In Turnovers and at least act like he's interested in winning. I agree the catering is done. Most everyone knows what he is and what he's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Make all the excuses you want for or against Jay. He needs to pull his head out and stop doing what he can to lead the NFL In Turnovers and at least act like he's interested in winning. I agree the catering is done. Most everyone knows what he is and what he's not. An improved line and a more balanced attack will go a long way in helping Jay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Make all the excuses you want for or against Jay. He needs to pull his head out and stop doing what he can to lead the NFL In Turnovers and at least act like he's interested in winning. I agree the catering is done. Most everyone knows what he is and what he's not. It really is as simple as that. We all know he is good for 3,500 yards 28 to 30 TD's. ITs just the stupid WTF INT'S. If he could hit these numbers while only throwing around 12 INT'S I think everyone would be pretty happy. And for a little icing on the cake Don't look like such as asshole on sidelines, Im tired of everyone picking apart his demeanor. Was there a better option at OC than Gase, the Bears literally got the best OC on the market. Not to mention the best DC too. Maybe Jay's sideline and on filed demeanor will be better if they actually put some W's on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sadly, based on his past, those 12 pics will cost us games. They will thrown at the most inopportune time. If he could hit these numbers while only throwing around 12 INT'S I think everyone would be pretty happy. And for a little icing on the cake Don't look like such as asshole on sidelines, Im tired of everyone picking apart his demeanor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sadly, based on his past, those 12 pics will cost us games. They will thrown at the most inopportune time. True. Unfortunately he doesn't limit himself to just INT's but also fumbles occasionally. And you're right, it seems he has a knack to make these inopportune choices when in the red zone or where the other team can turn it into a direct score. Good line or no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 True. Unfortunately he doesn't limit himself to just INT's but also fumbles occasionally. And you're right, it seems he has a knack to make these inopportune choices when in the red zone or where the other team can turn it into a direct score. Good line or no. The fumbles are not all on him, the fumbles he had were he held on to the ball too long go on Cutler, the fumbles from poor protection and Cutler getting hit within 3 seconds go on either scheme or pass protection breaking down. Turnovers are going to happen. The only thing I hope for that Gase will be able to put in place a game plan/ scheme that limits his exposure to turnovers and the oline is able to provide better protection. If the oline gives Cutler better protection it will limit the amount of fumbles and reduce the amount of pressure Cutler feels which will get him more comfortable in the pocket. If Cutler is not fearing for his life before every snap I hope he can jump the big INT hurdle that has plagued him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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