Bears at Lions Official Game Thread (Thu, Nov 22, 11:30 AM CST/CBS/Bears -4, O/U 45.5)

[Connorbear]

4 hours ago, jason said:

Pathetic that they didn’t get Howard the rock much, much more. That should have been the game plan. I am happy Daniel didn’t ruin the game, but why they didn’t lean on the run a ton more is a complete mystery.

They won with essentially 84 hours between games.   I couldn't care less how it was accomplished. 

Peace

[adam]

2 hours ago, ChileBear said:

IMdO, Howard is a stud, and has proved it through his years as apro. Just be patient, there will be a game here that Nagy uses Howard's skills. Hey, can you say Matt Suey? This is a team, they all--coaches/players-- are showing it.

Is Howard unhappy? Don't know (and I don't really care as long as the O is working). I think Howard is going to be a key to our run when the weather turns bad.

We will see.

I am wondering if Nagy is just saving him for later in the season, reducing the number of carries now so he has them in the tank in crunch time. It would be nice to have some fresh legs in December.

[Mongo3451]

Honestly, Howard looks like a fish out of water.  I don't blame anyone, but can see him being traded.  His skills and especially style are not a fit for what the future holds.  Some team will be happy to have him; hopefully at a good price for us.  He is a good player.

[Connorbear]

36 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Honestly, Howard looks like a fish out of water.  I don't blame anyone, but can see him being traded.  His skills and especially style are not a fit for what the future holds.  Some team will be happy to have him; hopefully at a good price for us.  He is a good player.

Agreed.  Howard does not fit our system.  He's a good player that can have success elsewhere.  

Peace

[Bill]

I don't think its just Howard.  Perhaps the blocking scheme and the commitment to running the football vs using the short pass.

[eback]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

I don't think its just Howard.  Perhaps the blocking scheme and the commitment to running the football vs using the short pass.

It does not look like the line is creating lanes very well although pass protection is the best I’ve seen in a while. 

[AZ54]

16 hours ago, jason said:

Pathetic that they didn’t get Howard the rock much, much more. That should have been the game plan. I am happy Daniel didn’t ruin the game, but why they didn’t lean on the run a ton more is a complete mystery.

I only saw the second half but I did expect Howard to play a bigger role in this game.  Then I read your comment and I thought, yes we should have ran Howard more often.   I saw how effective Blount was shaking off tired defenders and expected Howard would be able to do similar damage in the second half.   On the other hand I remember years ago when Detroit had a bad pass defense but a good run defense  (I think it was the Jauron era or maybe Lovie) and we went there and just tried to run the ball and barely tested their secondary.  I think it was because we got off the bus running or something like that.  We lost that game.   At least Nagy can recognize where his offense has an advantage over a defense and call plays to that effect.  In that respect I won't complain too much but at some point we must get the running game going if we're going to make a good run in the playoffs.   Nagy has acknowledge that as well a couple weeks ago.  Since then we've been without Sims so I'm hoping Nagy will start calling those running plays more often once he gets Shaheen back on the field as an inline blocker.     

[Stinger226]

Their are many aspects that are affecting Howards running. First of all, Nagy is scheming people in spots to succeed and leans less on the running game. We are playing without a FB that gave Howard in the past better running lanes. Sims is hurt and Shaheen is not up to speed yet in the system. Anyone remember the name of Kyle Long? He was our best run blocker. His injury causes us to start Daniels before they actually wanted to . Also a unwanted FA is playing RG to show you how good Kush actually was. It is the combination of several reasons we are not running the ball well. Once Daniels is fully integrated and hopefully Long coming back for playoffs, then you will see Howard look better. Hard to be a good RB when you keep getting hit before you reach the line of scrimmage . The last two years Howard looked good because of a FB, blocking TE, he was more a part of the game plan that got him yardage late in games. 

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Their are many aspects that are affecting Howards running. First of all, Nagy is scheming people in spots to succeed and leans less on the running game. We are playing without a FB that gave Howard in the past better running lanes. Sims is hurt and Shaheen is not up to speed yet in the system. Anyone remember the name of Kyle Long? He was our best run blocker. His injury causes us to start Daniels before they actually wanted to . Also a unwanted FA is playing RG to show you how good Kush actually was. It is the combination of several reasons we are not running the ball well. Once Daniels is fully integrated and hopefully Long coming back for playoffs, then you will see Howard look better. Hard to be a good RB when you keep getting hit before you reach the line of scrimmage . The last two years Howard looked good because of a FB, blocking TE, he was more a part of the game plan that got him yardage late in games. 

I think it's deeper than that, in that the entire blocking scheme has changed.   This offense is predicated on speed and what they are asking Howard to do does not match his downhill style.  Instead of beating the defense to the point of attack, he has to beat them at the point of attack from not having that initial quickness of a Cohen or Hunt.  Simply not his style. 

[Bill]

It also seems that they are limited to running Howard inside the tackles.  He seems to be just a power runner vs some of the other backs in the same type of offense.  And I don't think we can just depend on Cohen to be the main back.  I loved his first two years in Chicago but just like Fox was a coach who's time came and left.  Maybe they should look at others options.  Seems like I see a lot of backs who fit this scheme better every Sunday.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I’m with Jason on this, but not necessarily because he should run more.  Why can’t he be used more for receiving too?  Last I looked a few weeks ago he was 100% in receiving when targeted.  Yesterday he missed one due to Daniel overthrowing him.  And I’m sure there a few more misses since then which would effect his overall catch percentage.  Watch most of the times he goes out as safety outlet and see how often he is open.  If they insisted he work on his pass catching ability last offseason then why not exploit that skill more often?  

The running scheme, not his execution, is lacking.  Been discussed numerous times but they aren’t doing the zone blocking like last year where he has a better chance of looking for open lanes.  Right now when he runs he’s essentially given the ball and asked to run straight forward.  Power running might work better for him if the blockers were set up to do power blocking.  Right now you have two rookies in the guard positions and like Stinger points out are missing key players at the FB and TE positions.  For all intents and purposes Howard is being asked to make his own holes and not given as much opportunity to put to use his newer skills as a receiver.  

But fear not, Jordan still leads the team in rushing yards with 536 and is 6th on the team in receiving yards.  Just a few weeks back I was told if Jordan we’re still able to get 800 rushing yards in the season that would still be considered productive.  Considering where everything else is playing out I’d agree with that.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Jordan is still getting the same amount of carries per game as last year. He average 15.75 last year and 14.71 this year so far. Face it, he is not the same back as he was the last two seasons. Maybe it is the blocking?  In the offseason, if they can muster a 3rd rd pick for him, I would consider, only because he seems to be producing less. 

[adam]

59 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Jordan is still getting the same amount of carries per game as last year. He average 15.75 last year and 14.71 this year so far. Face it, he is not the same back as he was the last two seasons. Maybe it is the blocking?  In the offseason, if they can muster a 3rd rd pick for him, I would consider, only because he seems to be producing less. 

I am getting these for his averages:

17.25 - 2017
14.73 - 2018

He had a monster carry game in 2017 against Baltimore (36) that really skewed his averages. If you don't count that game, he averaged 16 carries a game for the other 15. So he is down 1.25 for the year, and was at 15.5 per game before his season-low 7 carries.

So this is more about production than it is usage.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, adam said:

I am getting these for his averages:

17.25 - 2017
14.73 - 2018

He had a monster carry game in 2017 against Baltimore (36) that really skewed his averages. If you don't count that game, he averaged 16 carries a game for the other 15. So he is down 1.25 for the year, and was at 15.5 per game before his season-low 7 carries.

So this is more about production than it is usage.

Yeah, I had 2016 stats. Still not far off, really, 2 to 3 carries. Once the weather gets more brutal he might have more, doubtful since Nagy is all pass.

[BearFan PHX]

I think Howard is an excellent back, and the run blocking has been the culprit.

I also agree that for the money Howard will deserve on his second contract, we probably won't keep him, and given that, a trade next year is likely, especially missing draft picks as we are.

But the fault here is with the blocking first and foremost.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:

I think Howard is an excellent back, and the run blocking has been the culprit.

I also agree that for the money Howard will deserve on his second contract, we probably won't keep him, and given that, a trade next year is likely, especially missing draft picks as we are.

But the fault here is with the blocking first and foremost.

Agree.  And very good point on the contract vs draft needs. 

[BearFan2000]

I didn’t realize his usage stats were as similar as past seasons. I think his overall lack of production makes it feel like he’s not being utilized. I agree that a big part of it is blocking and run blocking schemes. Jordan is at his best in a zone scheme where he can pick his hole vs running straight up the gut. Missing Long hurts too. 

[AZ54]

On 11/23/2018 at 8:18 PM, adam said:

I am getting these for his averages:

17.25 - 2017
14.73 - 2018

He had a monster carry game in 2017 against Baltimore (36) that really skewed his averages. If you don't count that game, he averaged 16 carries a game for the other 15. So he is down 1.25 for the year, and was at 15.5 per game before his season-low 7 carries.

So this is more about production than it is usage.

I would say this year Howard has had a much higher percentage of runs in kill-the-clock situations when the entire world knows you will run versus the past two years.  Especially since we weren't winning many games in his first two seasons.  While total carries per game might be somewhat similar the context of many of those runs is probably different.  

[FlyfishingBear]

To me he looks slower and more unsure this year.  He also doesn't seem to have the drive to break tackles that he did previous years.  No stats,  just the eyeball test.  He's not the same runner.  Whether that's him,  the line,  the scheme,  teams keying on him more - I don't know,  but he doesn't look like the same player at all. 

[adam]

7 minutes ago, FlyfishingBear said:

To me he looks slower and more unsure this year.  He also doesn't seem to have the drive to break tackles that he did previous years.  No stats,  just the eyeball test.  He's not the same runner.  Whether that's him,  the line,  the scheme,  teams keying on him more - I don't know,  but he doesn't look like the same player at all. 

I see the same thing. I can't tell you how many times he went down to the ground after running into to the back of an O-Lineman with minimal contact from a defender.

[jason]

I just feel like the offense needs a strong run game to continue the success. The pessimist in me says sooner or later it will be opposite of Shoop. The defense will dare the Bears to run by dropping more into coverage and testing Trubisky's decision-making processes. And unless the Bears figure out how to actually maximize Howard's running style, that could pose a problem.

[AZ54]

16 hours ago, jason said:

I just feel like the offense needs a strong run game to continue the success. The pessimist in me says sooner or later it will be opposite of Shoop. The defense will dare the Bears to run by dropping more into coverage and testing Trubisky's decision-making processes. And unless the Bears figure out how to actually maximize Howard's running style, that could pose a problem.

This too will come to pass.