Offensive Line

[bradjock]

Just reading the Trib and they are saying Angelo doesn't act like he'll sign another o-lineman. If he was going to do that, wouldn't he have done it already?

 

The Bears have not shown interest in signing a guard. We made offers to Colon & the LT from NO. No guards. Does this mean we're happy with Chris Williams at Guard?

 

Unless something changes real quick, here's what we'll have:

LT: The bad Frank Omiyale or rookie Carimi. Most experts project Carimi better suited to play RT.

LG: The bad Chris Williams or the bad Lance Louis.

C: Spencer: Most consider him worse then Kreutz.

RG: Roberto Garza: I hope his age doesn't start to show

RT: J Webb: He's a great story but I have never been impressed.

 

The list of free agents is now very thin and we don't seem interested. Does anyone else feel sick?

[Stinger226]

Just reading the Trib and they are saying Angelo doesn't act like he'll sign another o-lineman. If he was going to do that, wouldn't he have done it already?

 

The Bears have not shown interest in signing a guard. We made offers to Colon & the LT from NO. No guards. Does this mean we're happy with Chris Williams at Guard?

 

Unless something changes real quick, here's what we'll have:

LT: The bad Frank Omiyale or rookie Carimi. Most experts project Carimi better suited to play RT.

LG: The bad Chris Williams or the bad Lance Louis.

C: Spencer: Most consider him worse then Kreutz.

RG: Roberto Garza: I hope his age doesn't start to show

RT: J Webb: He's a great story but I have never been impressed.

 

The list of free agents is now very thin and we don't seem interested. Does anyone else feel sick?

there are going to move Carimi to RT and Webb to LT. With no offseason I hope Culter has been taking steroids, because he will need it.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I think being "sick" over the status quo is a bit extreme. Most here will agree that Mike Tice knows what he's doing and if he wants to try and work with what they have, because they have potential. Well that's fine by me. There are four pre-season games upcoming that will help in that grading. There will be more FA's to be had, should the Bears need them. All hope is not lost.

 

And besides that JA has a take on what is going on with the line. It reads as sound deliberation:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,3581055.story

 

 

[GrizzlyBear]

Just reading the Trib and they are saying Angelo doesn't act like he'll sign another o-lineman. If he was going to do that, wouldn't he have done it already?

 

The Bears have not shown interest in signing a guard. We made offers to Colon & the LT from NO. No guards. Does this mean we're happy with Chris Williams at Guard?

 

Unless something changes real quick, here's what we'll have:

LT: The bad Frank Omiyale or rookie Carimi. Most experts project Carimi better suited to play RT.

LG: The bad Chris Williams or the bad Lance Louis.

C: Spencer: Most consider him worse then Kreutz.

RG: Roberto Garza: I hope his age doesn't start to show

RT: J Webb: He's a great story but I have never been impressed.

 

The list of free agents is now very thin and we don't seem interested. Does anyone else feel sick?

LT: The bad Frank Omiyale or rookie Carimi. Most experts project Carimi better suited to play RT.Experts have been wrong and the result is still out till Tice gets a good look

LG: The bad Chris Williams or the bad Lance Louis.Mostlikely will be Spencer till he gets all the calls down

C: Spencer: Most consider him worse then Kreutz.Edwin Williams will most likely be center Keeping the middle solid, Wont know till he is able to practice

RG: Roberto Garza: I hope his age doesn't start to showWill stay at right guard

RT: J Webb: He's a great story but I have never been impressed. For rookie he did well enough to put the bloodline on his ass. So improvement is due

 

Your assesment is defiantley skewed. Spencer is stronger , Bigger and younger then Olin, I loved Olin play early on but do you honestly think they are better off with him? I dont think so. Edwin Williams played Center for Baltimore, He best suited for that position early on, once Spencer gets all the calls down, It will be vast improvement in the middle, Running the ball will be the real tale. The way I see it:

early on alignment

Left tackle Carimi, He will win the job outright because of his nastiness and mauling attitude

Left guard Spencer, he is an upgrade for Williams and will learn calls while playing there.

Center Edwin Williams, Cant practice till 4th of August But will best option because he knows the offense and is a better center then garza

Rigtht guard Garza Solid player which will help Williams in the middle if needed.

Right tackle Webb Did a nice job as rookie, Will improve his hold on the Right side.

 

As the season rolls on

Left tackle Carimi

Left guard Edwin Williams Or FA

Center Spencer

Right Guard Garza

Right tackle Webb

 

Iam much more comfortable with the lineups this year then last C Williams will be a swing tackle In case of Injury, Look for him to be released after this year or traded because of his cap number, But I would feel much better then Omiyale being back there with this config.

 

 

[Stinger226]

LT: The bad Frank Omiyale or rookie Carimi. Most experts project Carimi better suited to play RT.Experts have been wrong and the result is still out till Tice gets a good look

LG: The bad Chris Williams or the bad Lance Louis.Mostlikely will be Spencer till he gets all the calls down

C: Spencer: Most consider him worse then Kreutz.Edwin Williams will most likely be center Keeping the middle solid, Wont know till he is able to practice

RG: Roberto Garza: I hope his age doesn't start to showWill stay at right guard

RT: J Webb: He's a great story but I have never been impressed. For rookie he did well enough to put the bloodline on his ass. So improvement is due

 

Your assesment is defiantley skewed. Spencer is stronger , Bigger and younger then Olin, I loved Olin play early on but do you honestly think they are better off with him? I dont think so. Edwin Williams played Center for Baltimore, He best suited for that position early on, once Spencer gets all the calls down, It will be vast improvement in the middle, Running the ball will be the real tale. The way I see it:

early on alignment

Left tackle Carimi, He will win the job outright because of his nastiness and mauling attitude

Left guard Spencer, he is an upgrade for Williams and will learn calls while playing there.

Center Edwin Williams, Cant practice till 4th of August But will best option because he knows the offense and is a better center then garza

Rigtht guard Garza Solid player which will help Williams in the middle if needed.

Right tackle Webb Did a nice job as rookie, Will improve his hold on the Right side.

 

As the season rolls on

Left tackle Carimi

Left guard Edwin Williams Or FA

Center Spencer

Right Guard Garza

Right tackle Webb

 

Iam much more comfortable with the lineups this year then last C Williams will be a swing tackle In case of Injury, Look for him to be released after this year or traded because of his cap number, But I would feel much better then Omiyale being back there with this config.

I think this will be the lineup on opening day.

 

LT-Webb

LG-Spencer

C-Garza

RG-Louis

RT-Carmi

I hear Tice really likes Louis and will give him the chance to start on right side. I already hear Carmi is practicing on the right side.

 

[jason]

I think being "sick" over the status quo is a bit extreme. Most here will agree that Mike Tice knows what he's doing and if he wants to try and work with what they have, because they have potential. Well that's fine by me. There are four pre-season games upcoming that will help in that grading. There will be more FA's to be had, should the Bears need them. All hope is not lost.

 

And besides that JA has a take on what is going on with the line. It reads as sound deliberation:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,3581055.story

 

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?

 

It's "fine by you" if the Bears don't address their OBVIOUS #1 need? It's "fine by you" if the Bears don't upgrade the position that was directly responsible for most of the failings of the offense last year? It's "sound deliberation" to keep the OL at status quo despite the fact it's the primary cause for the Bears' failure throughout the season and the ultimate end to the season?!

 

If the OL isn't addressed, it's pathetic.

[Mongo3451]

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?

 

It's "fine by you" if the Bears don't address their OBVIOUS #1 need? It's "fine by you" if the Bears don't upgrade the position that was directly responsible for most of the failings of the offense last year? It's "sound deliberation" to keep the OL at status quo despite the fact it's the primary cause for the Bears' failure throughout the season and the ultimate end to the season?!

 

If the OL isn't addressed, it's pathetic.

Gotta agree. Some people think Tice is Jesus with a whistle and bad shorts.

[Guest TerraTor]

Jason is completely right. Nothing gets done without the Oline. We have a possibly great DLine and yet nothing is addressed on the Oline and then we get Roy Williams of all people....

 

Even if they were to bring in agings vets at OG and Ot. Its better than our group of late round picks who have never played... I mean seriously Angelo.. You ask for solutions...how about you fire yourself

[Chitownhustla]

I just puked at the mere thought of the Bears not doing anything else with the Oline.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Uhm..... I think they DID address the OL once or twice: see Spencer and Carimi with the #1 pick this year. I don't think anywhere in my post did I close the door on the possibility of signing another OL man. In fact, I left it open for the possibility that even after a few weeks of preseason games there could very well be another FA pop here or there. Just because the Bears haven't signed every top star they could (see Redskins) doesn't mean they're done....not by a long shot.

 

In the meantime, what I did say is that I have faith (not the Jesus kind) that coaches like Tice know what they are doing. And I think he wants to work with what he's got FOR NOW. Hell, they've only practiced together for one or two days. Relax, get a grip...don't get sick or vomit or whatever, just yet.

[LasCrucesBear]

I appreciate what Olin has done for the Bears. I remembered when he did the Karate Kid Krane on a dude after he jacked him up. But Frankly its time to move one. I don't know how many games recently I've seen him get blown up. Leadership is one thing but. In my opinion he's lost quite a bit. I never liked to talk bad about him watching the games but I've seen him miss so many blocks I found myself yelling at him like I do Angelo. Sucks but hey got to move on and continue to address the line.

[balta1701-A]

There are 2 things worth saying here. I contend both of them to be true.

 

First, the positive. The Bears offensive line situation is significantly better than it was last year.

 

The weakest point in the Bears O-line last year, by far, and it wasn't even close, was Frank Omiyale. Omiyale is a serviceable backup, but he was an expert at the "Ole!" move of letting the D-line past him last year. Getting him out of the starting lineup, and especially out of the starting left tackle spot, is the single biggest move the Bears could have made to improve that line. Even if he's replaced by a 7th round pick.

 

The Bears have also made other upgrades to their protection. Williams and Webb will be in their 2nd years under Tice, which hopefully will also have improvement. Carimi appears to be a solid building block. The Bears also appear to like Louis. Garza is back, although his health was an issue last year, he was solid when he was in there. Although Kreutz may have been an "emotional leader" or whatever, he was not a strong, effective blocker last year, so replacing him is at worst a lateral move.

 

Furthermore, the Bears have also upgraded their blocking at TE, getting rid of Manumalueuseless, whose failure as a blocker last year caused Olsen to be stuck in as the blocking TE more than necessary. They brought in a blocking TE, and moved Olsen so that the TE can be a mostly blocking position, with Davis used as an occasional receiving threat.

 

All of these moves are upgrades, or at the worst lateral moves. It cannot be said that the Bears made no moves to upgrade the Line this year.

Now, onto the 2nd point: The Bears have also done the Bear Minimum that they could do to upgrade that line. No additional high-promise/high money veterans have been brought in. There is no obvious anchor to that line. The Bears have placed a lot of trust in Tice and Martz to be able to use systems and schemes to get guys who haven't been together very long to gel as a solid, effective group.

 

They are still gambling, and the result could still be one of the league's worst lines.

 

If the Bears win a couple of their gambles, they could have a solid line, maybe even one of the leagues' better lines considering that there is a lot of mass on it this year. If the Bears lose a gamble or someone gets hurt, then they're going to regret not having spent more to upgrade that line.

[jason]

Uhm..... I think they DID address the OL once or twice: see Spencer and Carimi with the #1 pick this year. I don't think anywhere in my post did I close the door on the possibility of signing another OL man. In fact, I left it open for the possibility that even after a few weeks of preseason games there could very well be another FA pop here or there. Just because the Bears haven't signed every top star they could (see Redskins) doesn't mean they're done....not by a long shot.

 

In the meantime, what I did say is that I have faith (not the Jesus kind) that coaches like Tice know what they are doing. And I think he wants to work with what he's got FOR NOW. Hell, they've only practiced together for one or two days. Relax, get a grip...don't get sick or vomit or whatever, just yet.

 

I don't feel like looking back in the board's history, but I'm quite sure some people were saying the same thing last year, and the year before, and the year before...how did that work out? No better than the 23rd ranked offense since the magical Super Bowl year.

2010 - 30

2009 - 23

2008 - 26

2007 - 27

 

The point is, we're sick of the lack of attention the OL gets. Hell, every single person who considers themselves a Bears fan should be irritated if this obvious deficiency isn't addressed again. It is, and has been for about 5 years, the primary problem with this team. The DL got addressed, again, and it could potentially be a great DL. I'm excited about the DL. But the DL didn't need nearly the help that the OL did.

 

As for your previous comments, you're the one who said it was "sound deliberation" for JA to tap dance around the issue when the obvious need was OL, and the obvious subset of that was OG, and there were at least 2 stud OGs available when FA began. That should have been focus number 1, number 2, and just in case, number 3. When my bedroom is on fire I don't typically walk into the kitchen and start making breakfast.

[lemonej]

Ok I'll open mouth and insert foot.

LT Williams

LG Spencer

C Linnekohl This is if Tice is on his job.

RG Garza

RT Carimi

 

This is a crazy way of looking at things but I believe this wacky configuration might work. That leaves Webb,E Williams as backups with starting experience.

[jason]

There are 2 things worth saying here. I contend both of them to be true.

 

First, the positive. The Bears offensive line situation is significantly better than it was last year.

 

The weakest point in the Bears O-line last year, by far, and it wasn't even close, was Frank Omiyale. Omiyale is a serviceable backup, but he was an expert at the "Ole!" move of letting the D-line past him last year. Getting him out of the starting lineup, and especially out of the starting left tackle spot, is the single biggest move the Bears could have made to improve that line. Even if he's replaced by a 7th round pick.

 

The Bears have also made other upgrades to their protection. Williams and Webb will be in their 2nd years under Tice, which hopefully will also have improvement. Carimi appears to be a solid building block. The Bears also appear to like Louis (Note: They "appeared to like" Omiyale last year). Garza is back, although his health was an issue last year, he was solid when he was in there. Although Kreutz may have been an "emotional leader" or whatever, he was not a strong, effective blocker last year, so replacing him is at worst a lateral move. (Note: I don't know where the revisionist history has come from over the course of FA, but if Garza was solid, so was Kreutz. They performed on a very similar level.)

 

Furthermore, the Bears have also upgraded their blocking at TE, getting rid of Manumalueuseless, whose failure as a blocker last year caused Olsen to be stuck in as the blocking TE more than necessary. They brought in a blocking TE, and moved Olsen so that the TE can be a mostly blocking position, with Davis used as an occasional receiving threat.

 

All of these moves are upgrades, or at the worst lateral moves. It cannot be said that the Bears made no moves to upgrade the Line this year.

 

Now, onto the 2nd point: The Bears have also done the Bear Minimum that they could do to upgrade that line. No additional high-promise/high money veterans have been brought in. There is no obvious anchor to that line. The Bears have placed a lot of trust in Tice and Martz to be able to use systems and schemes to get guys who haven't been together very long to gel as a solid, effective group.

 

They are still gambling, and the result could still be one of the league's worst lines.

 

If the Bears win a couple of their gambles, they could have a solid line, maybe even one of the leagues' better lines considering that there is a lot of mass on it this year. If the Bears lose a gamble or someone gets hurt, then they're going to regret not having spent more to upgrade that line.

 

Cutting a TE and the emotional leader of your OL are not upgrades to the OL. Neither is giving another starting position to a guy who sucked last year (i.e. Webb) just because he has a year of sucking under his belt.

-The TE doesn't play OL. I could alternately say that cutting Olsen made the Bears less of a threat on offense. So, that's gotta be scratched off the positives list.

-Removing Kreutz is at best a lateral move.

 

The ONLY true upgrade the Bears have made to the OL this year is in the draft. Gabe Carimi is an upgrade. Even as an untested rookie, he's better than Webb or Omiyale. Beyond that, however, there have been no actual upgrades. Sure, they swept up the place a bit, but that doesn't mean they made significant changes or upgrades.

 

The part in super-blue is a bad enough possibility that the minor changes, or "upgrades" as you like to call them, amount to very little for a very major problem and very likely possibility. Bandaids on a shotgun blast to the chest.

[jason]

Ok I'll open mouth and insert foot.

LT Williams

LG Spencer

C Linnekohl This is if Tice is on his job.

RG Garza

RT Carimi

 

This is a crazy way of looking at things but I believe this wacky configuration might work. That leaves Webb,E Williams as backups with starting experience.

 

I don't see that as unlikely, particularly because of the truncated preseason & training camp. Personally I think it will be:

 

LT - Webb

LG - Williams

C - Spencer

RG - Garza

RT - Carimi

 

...and Jay Cutler in a sling at the end of the year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Jason, I know you enjoy contradiction but I'll make this brief.

 

I agree that the Bears need to upgrade OL.

 

I agree that the Bears have not, in the past, done great in addressing that problem.

 

I disagree that they had to do it now. Each team has something like 90 players right no and will have to eventually cut down to 53 (that's still the number right?) so another FA is bound to shake loose.

 

I also disagree that JA "skirted" the issue at all. He said that it wasn't as simple as picking a player and signing him up. He admitted to targeting Colon early on and it didn't work out. You yourself said there were only 2 decent FA guards to begin with. And of them, how many returned to their team?

 

So like before, give it time. And what the heck is the analogy of "leaving a fire and hanging ou to make breakfast?" Don't get it.

[Chitownhustla]

Uhm..... I think they DID address the OL once or twice: see Spencer and Carimi with the #1 pick this year. I don't think anywhere in my post did I close the door on the possibility of signing another OL man. In fact, I left it open for the possibility that even after a few weeks of preseason games there could very well be another FA pop here or there. Just because the Bears haven't signed every top star they could (see Redskins) doesn't mean they're done....not by a long shot.

 

In the meantime, what I did say is that I have faith (not the Jesus kind) that coaches like Tice know what they are doing. And I think he wants to work with what he's got FOR NOW. Hell, they've only practiced together for one or two days. Relax, get a grip...don't get sick or vomit or whatever, just yet.

 

 

Adding Carmi and Spencer is nowhere enough for how bad this Oline was last year. There are too many question marks with the Tackle's. Is Williams or Carmi playing Right or Left, are they putting Webb in as a starter? Who do we have at center now? Who is the guards? With the Tackles most likely being the younger guys why not sign a OG, a proven OG. Signing one of the many proven Og that were out there would have made this whole OL better. It would make the merry go round at the Tackle position not so risky. Having a proven OG next to a young Tackle would lessen the blow. Instead they sign no one.

 

Im happy with what they have added, DL and WR. But there is not 1 person that can say they have done enough when it comes to the OL.

[Connorbear]

Cutting a TE and the emotional leader of your OL are not upgrades to the OL. Neither is giving another starting position to a guy who sucked last year (i.e. Webb) just because he has a year of sucking under his belt.

-The TE doesn't play OL. I could alternately say that cutting Olsen made the Bears less of a threat on offense. So, that's gotta be scratched off the positives list.

-Removing Kreutz is at best a lateral move.

 

The ONLY true upgrade the Bears have made to the OL this year is in the draft. Gabe Carimi is an upgrade. Even as an untested rookie, he's better than Webb or Omiyale. Beyond that, however, there have been no actual upgrades. Sure, they swept up the place a bit, but that doesn't mean they made significant changes or upgrades.

 

The part in super-blue is a bad enough possibility that the minor changes, or "upgrades" as you like to call them, amount to very little for a very major problem and very likely possibility. Bandaids on a shotgun blast to the chest.

They didn't cut Olsen. They traded him.

 

Peace

[DABEARSDABOMB]

To be honest, I think we have to give Williams a full year at one position to see what he can do. Whether that is tackle or guard, I think after investing a first round pick in him, you have to fully see what you have.

 

I think our line will be better than a lot of people believe. I don't think it will be elite though, but much much better than the crap we ran out last year. Carimi is an upgrade, Spencer might be an upgrade, and our other young players all have a season under there belts.

[jason]

Jason, I know you enjoy contradiction but I'll make this brief.

 

I agree that the Bears need to upgrade OL.

 

I agree that the Bears have not, in the past, done great in addressing that problem.

 

I disagree that they had to do it now. Each team has something like 90 players right no and will have to eventually cut down to 53 (that's still the number right?) so another FA is bound to shake loose.

 

I also disagree that JA "skirted" the issue at all. He said that it wasn't as simple as picking a player and signing him up. He admitted to targeting Colon early on and it didn't work out. You yourself said there were only 2 decent FA guards to begin with. And of them, how many returned to their team?

 

So like before, give it time. And what the heck is the analogy of "leaving a fire and hanging ou to make breakfast?" Don't get it.

 

I can accept the "agree to disagree" stance, I just happen to think it's ridiculous in this case.

I can accept the "give it time" stance, I just happen to think it was already given time, over the course of numerous years.

 

And you misquoted me, I said, there were at least 2 stud OGs available when FA began. Where they ended up is inconsequential. If the Bears wanted a player enough, needed a player enough, there would have at least been some info on the rumor mill or statements by the FO about the pursuit of said player. As it stands, we have a minor blurb about OT, which was/is the second, maybe third, area of need on the OL.

 

As for the analogy I made, it's about addressing priorities. When there is a fire, you put it out. You don't walk away and do something else or improve something else when it's already in a decent or solid state. You address the problem. You put out the fire.

[madlithuanian]

I third that...

 

Sick is the correct feeling.

 

Gotta agree. Some people think Tice is Jesus with a whistle and bad shorts.

 

[madlithuanian]

Sadly, I think you're right on all 6 counts...

 

I don't see that as unlikely, particularly because of the truncated preseason & training camp. Personally I think it will be:

 

LT - Webb

LG - Williams

C - Spencer

RG - Garza

RT - Carimi

 

...and Jay Cutler in a sling at the end of the year.

 

[lemonej]

I don't see that as unlikely, particularly because of the truncated preseason & training camp. Personally I think it will be:

 

LT - Webb

LG - Williams

C - Spencer

RG - Garza

RT - Carimi

 

...and Jay Cutler in a sling at the end of the year.

Ha Ha very nice close Jason. If you notice I agree with you about moving Williams back out to LT and if he shows that he can play there like projected then it is an upgrade. I threw the UFDA in there because of how Webb ended up in the starting lineup.

[bradjock]

To be honest, I think we have to give Williams a full year at one position to see what he can do. Whether that is tackle or guard, I think after investing a first round pick in him, you have to fully see what you have.

 

Williams rookie year he was mostly hurt, then played RT. He was bad. He continued to play RT his 2nd year but was switch to LT after Orlando Pace sucked. He looked mediocre. We started him out at LT again, he got hurt, and we moved him to LG.

 

He's had 3 years and while there's been a bunch of changes, he's never established himself at a position. At what point do you pull the plug?

 

I think our line will be better than a lot of people believe. I don't think it will be elite though, but much much better than the crap we ran out last year. Carimi is an upgrade, Spencer might be an upgrade, and our other young players all have a season under there belts.

 

Carimi ain't ready to be a starting LT. No way, no how.