'TD'

I could be totally wrong or missing something, but I think this team was bound to fail because it wasn't built for "Bear Weather". The offense was loosely built off the model of the greatest show on turf, which utilizes speed over size and preforming best in optimal conditions. A lot of that was negated due to the weather. The Patriots were able to use power to run over a smaller Bears defense and exploit the zone (as mentioned earlier it's harder to react.) It doesn't help when a bad line has to try to do their job when they can't keep their feet or when the QB is having an off day.

It's half way through the season for the Bears. So i figured it would be a good time to revisit and remake end of the season predictions. Below I got listed who the Bears have beat so far and who they have defeated, plus who they will face the rest of the season. Teams the Bears beat Lions 2-6 Cowboys 1-7 Packers 6-3 Panthers 1-7 Bills 0-8 Combined record: 10-31 Teams that defeated the Bears Giants 6-2 Seahawks 4-4 Redskins 4-4 Combined record: 14-10 The Bears schedule coming up Vikings 3-5 @Dolphins 4-4 Eagles 5-3 @ Lions 2-6 Patriots 6-2 @Vikings 3-5 Jets 6-2 @Packers 6-3 Combined record 35-30

You have a lot of people here that go back a long time together and like to argue with each other. Most have been here longer than me. Basically every on that posts here wants the Bears to win and be sucessful. None of us have given up on Cutler completely. You have a lot of frustration being argued and a lot of what we all felt should have happened being brought up. For me personally it was I would have kept orton and drafted linemen. Would that have happened, who knows. Given the state of shit at this moment, it gives us something to talk about. Jason who has been one of my better friends off of here and the previous boards, and a staunch supporter of the WR corp, but the earliest advocate for the ofeensiveline needing help over the past few years is debating for cutler, and WR's are sucking now basically. We all are aguing what we think shoulda, coula woulda with this team and some for the future if we just add this and that. There's not many things i could post in this debate about how i felt before, now or the future that could cause ill feelings with anyone here. It's just more of a reason for them to prove me wrong since i am on the negative side of this debate and as we all hope for the best next year and beyond fo the bearsl

neither *years were productive or efficient, they were both less than average. but i have to say, we regressed from a very bad '08 offensive line to basically a semi-pro, horrific, milestone bad, offensive line in '09 and '10. in these environments no qb can play well. The line Orton played behind in 2008 was horrid. They got rid of alot of the starters, not because they were past their prime or shouldn't have been playing. A lot of what Orton did was basically what you saw in the one successful drive last week, dropping the ball off fast. The line looks worse than last year with basically the same players but an offensive scheme that plays away from that style. I do not think this line is worse then last year. This offense just shows how bad they are. 1. in this day and age the short dink and dunk throws without being able to go deep will not win you superbowls. you have to be able to shoot it out with qb's like manning and brees and be able to score quickly. otherwise we will end up with defenses playing us 8 and 9 in the box without fear of getting burned. this means your running game is at a clear disadvantage, not to mention your short passing game is doomed to failure. anytime you get behind 10 points or more in a game with time fading you have to be able to open up the field with a real threat that your qb can make completions 15-20 yards or more. I completely dissagree. I've seen very few shoot out superbowls in my lifetime. While me have one or 2 recent ones fresh in my memory, that isn't the norm. It's a game where everyone puts everything on the line, but if it works in the regularseason, it will work in the super bowl. 2. just to be clear on this subject... cutler does NOT have control over calling audibles at the LOS. he also does NOT have the ability to let his receivers get deep because he is either sacked or running for his life. and he does NOT appear to have any quality receivers to help him out in any type of pattern. That depends on who you listen to, lovie or Orton. The question wasn't asked in depth when asked to both. You can't tell me if he sees an uncovered guy that will be sacking him, that he can't talk to Olin to shift the line, forte to make sure to pick up the blitz, or notify the WR that will be open to be ready for that hot route. The Quality of recievers are nothing better than Orton had, and he played better his last year than Orton has to this point as a Bear. Hester in at this point in his career, Aromashodu when they let him Play, Knox that's on Pace to be the Bears first 1000 yard WR since Booker in the early 2000's, Chester Taylor when he plays, Forte in his 3rd season. Olsen this far in. Orton had Marty Booker the year before his career was over and didn't do much, Brandon Lloyd that could make the hard catch but not the easy seemed to give up, made it in the coaches dog house and missed games even after he was healthy, Forte in his rookie year, Olsen not nearly this far in, and so on. here is how i see the draft which differs from your point of view... LT - usually this is the most important position on your offensive line and the hardest to find a quality player. i agree, usually if you want to draft your good+ LT you should expect to do so as high as you can get or trade up to into the top half of the 1st round. RT - i believe that generally the slots to look for these players is the bottom half of the 1st round or throughout the 2nd round. sometimes you can find them in the lower rounds and groom them over a period of time. but, a safe bet is where i have stated. also a number of RT's show up when teams draft for LT's and they don't turn out thus pushing them onto the right side kicking up the slots where they were initially drafted. john tait is a very good example of this. that said, there are always exceptions to every rule (a killer sure thing RT may go very high if the need is there for a team finishing out their OL or have extenuating circumstances like a left handed qb). G - rarely are guards, unless the need is desperate or the player is exceptional, drafted higher than the 2nd round. you should be able to find good+ starting quality guards in the 2nd, 3rd, or even the 4th round (if you plan on grooming them behind an active player). unlike us, we draft them in the 6th or 7th round and expect them to start or flat out cut them. I agree with your point of view on the draft position of players. I just disagree on that that is JA's point of view. He should have went for guards then but he didn't. He also didn't have the flexibility to find those players when he knew he was going to let Ogunleye and Brown leave at DE. Once you give away the picks he did, you have to replace them, even if he valued his picks at DE over what he could find for the OL at that poin in the draft. i still believe the trade was justified for what we gave up. plus i also believe we could have filled out at the very LEAST our guard and center problems over the last 2 years drafts if angelo wasn't a complete idiot. like i said before, we pissed away TWO 2nd round draft picks over the last 2 years that could have been the difference on how this offensive line is playing in a huge way for the next 10 years. instead we ended up with players like igleasius (sp) or j. gilbert. players that not only we don't want but anyone else. I am glad you think the trade was justified, It gives us something to discuss since we disagree, which is awesome. It's better than we all agree it was right or woung, and gives us something to discuss, especially on a bye week like this. I disagree on the C problems over the last few years tho. From what I saw last year, Kruetz was trying to help and over compensate for the lack of talent around him which made it look for poor play from him. I haven't had time to review the line play this year like i did last, but I don't think C is a problem at the moment and probably the solidest spot on the line this year and last. hmmm... then why did they draft tebo in the 1st round? if you are happy with your young qb why would you waste a first rounder on the same position? No one knows Tebows future and their fans didn't draft him. McDaniels did. It's not an indictment on fans that watch all their games on TV or Orton. Drew Brees went through a similar situation. His team questioned him and drafted a QB that sat behind him a few years before they decided it was time to move on to Rivers. Since then they have arguably been top 3 or tops in their respective divisions. look, i know you have been an advocate for drafting offensive linemen over the years like me and think our drafts have been bad to say the least. so we are not that far off from each other. it is your belief that orton (whom i did like, just not compared to the potential talent we could get out of cutler) would have been the best option in chicago and i have no problem with that. we just have opposing view points which is cool and i can live with that. There are places, there are WR's open, he just needs to exploit it when teams blitz and hasn't been able to since the cowboy game

JA does have a horrible track record of drafting OL over all in the draft, but the first round isn't a place he has shied away from it. He's drafted 2 Olinemen, 2 Dlinemen, and one of each in a QB, RB, and TE. So there it far from unfathomable given the state the line is in. The 2 first round picks could have very likely resulted in not only a first round lineman but also if the other pick was used on another position that he did draft, another lineman could have been drafted earlier than the 7th round.

as far as being fond of a guy like manning? uhhh yea, who isn't. he is arguably the best quarterback ever to play in the history of the nfl. who wouldn't want him? I was using 2 QB's that are used when talking about the best QB in history when contrasting their style of play. Cutler the "gunslinger" like Favre and Orton the smart QB ala "Payton Manning". No I am not saying Orton is on or near Mannings level, but he's about away from being Payton as Jay is from being Brett. ]i am assuming you are talking about 2008 when orton/turner combined for a 9-7 season with no playoffs? Yes I was comparing his first year having free reign being named as QB early to Jay's first year as being top dog in Chicago that went 7-9 with no play offs. orton: 58.5 completion percentage, 79.6 QB rating, 27 sacks 465 attempts, 12 INT’s forte: 3.9 yds rushing average, 7.6 yd avg receiving this was productive, efficient, and consistent? i will give you consistent, consistently worse than average. Yes it was consistent and efficient. 12 int's is definitely more efficient than 26 int's from Cutler. It was consistent. Cutler had 19 td's to 25 picks going into the last 2 games which he blew up with 4 TD's a piece. That's the definition of inconsistent to me. You don't know whether your QB is going to throw 4 int's or TD's each game. [deep ball inacuracies? and you are going to compare him to orton in this aspect? really??? When he throws deep more often than Orton, yes it matters. If you look deep first and inaccurate, it matters more than a QB that rarely looks deep and relies on short throws to move the chains. Look at the one drive that actually worked Sunday. He wasn't doing his norm and throwing deep, he got hit less, took less sacks, and his inaccuracy with the long ball didn't end in wasted downs. He played an ortonesque drive and had success, compared to Cutleresque the rest of the game. 6. the problem here is that the “guy”, angelo, COULD afford cable. even without a first round pick who most people knew angelo wouldn’t use on an OL (especially after spending a first on one the year before). he traded out of our highest pick in 2009, a 2nd rounder in which he could have drafted unger the best projected center in the draft and a good guard to boot, to get more lower round picks (3rd and 4th round picks) in which he picked again, DL. he should have drafted players to keep the player he just spent the moon to get healthy. in my opinion 2nd rd, 3rd rd, and even 4th rd picks should have been used on the OL!! then in 2009 he traded our highest pick in the ’10 draft, a 2nd rounder, for another DL veteran who couldn’t even break the starting lineup in the team we got him from and couldn’t break ours with the average players we had!! to top that off he again spent his highest pick in 2010, a 3rd rounder, on drafting yet another safety instead of the critical OL that was virtually falling apart before his eyes when he made the trade!!!! it was pure stupidity or pure insanity, take your pick. I agree many picks should have been invested in the line over the JA Era that wasn't. Yet, the first round picks are the ones you need to spend on the line. How many starting linemen came out of the 2nd 3rd and 4th round that year that should have been picked? I'm sure sure there was a few, but the true talent, especially at tackle, is found in the first. 1. turner is and was terrible. the problem was our fearless leaders decided to keep a lame duck GM and coaching staff for monetary reasons. so... A) we ended up with nobody wanting to come in to coach for this team on either side of the ball. we didn’t even address the major concerns on our offensive line that CAUSED most of the offensive problems we witnessed in 2009. 2. our OL was not good at anything including pass protection last year and has gotten worse this year. Which is my point, when I say I didn't feel the addition of Cutler wasn't worth the talent that could be added to make this team better. There wasn't much that could have really been added this year giving the options, but yes JA was dumb in neglecting the line, as he was for giving away 3 high draft picks and a starting QB for Jay Cutler. 3. if bronco fans are laughing about anything this year, being 2 and 5, they must be complete loonies. Simply yes. Orton has 11 TD's over 2100 yards and only 4 int's. I'm sure they aren't thinking wow I wish I had Cutler. QB isn't their problem this year. 5. keeeeeripes!!! what do you expect him to say? that he would never again throw in the direction of a poor cornerback? it was a STUPID media question that didn’t even deserve an answer!!! No, but you also don't say you'll pass it to the guy that had more yards on int returns than any WR had on receptions that game everytime. 6. unless we can put up an nfl professional quality at least average offensive line don’t look for seeing the potential ever of any qb. Once again, my point on a reason I hate the trade. of course he deserves critisism. but when a team throws a quality player into the fire with nothing to protect him and expect him to perform like your payton manning it is completely unrealistic. I don't expect him to play like Payton Manning, I just preferred that style of QB over the gunslinger style. Not having 5 turnovers in a very winnable game would be a start or just playing smarter. just for sh!($ and grins, have you watched many colts games? do you know how you stop manning? you get in his face and you knock him down. you bring people from every direction and blitz the hell out of him and guess what? HE looks like crap too. i have SEEN it!!! why do you think that is? why do you think cutler should be somehow better than the golden boy manning when he is getting his #!%^ knocked in the dirt every single play??? if anybody, and i mean ANYBODY thinks manning could cope with the offensive line and the blocking cutler gets from our TE’s and RB’s and still end up in the pro-bowl they are delusional!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes that's how you can beat QB's but not all play bad as Jay in those situations. That's where reading your defenses, moving players, knowing how to hit someone fast instead of holding onto the ball or making bad throws becomes important. put it this way... name any player on the offensive line that another team would give up a draft pick for and how high. that should be the yardstick for the real quality of this squad. Once again that's my point, we needed linemen not a QB.

It's not all about Cutler there. It's more against JA and how I think things should have went. The 6 things I listed is just problems I had at the trade and how they look now. My major problem at the trade, cutler aside, was I felt the team needed those additional pieces you say are misisng. I don't undersstand arguing for the trade and yet say he has nothing around him.

I hate gunslingers. That was a major reason I didn't like the trade to start out with. So I guess I'm a 1%'er in what you are talking about. So I am biased in this conversation because of it. I've always hated Brett Favre. Not just because he was a Packer, and before the recent drama, but just on the fact I hate seeing guys who do stupid stuff and lose games for their teams get praised. I am more fond of a guy like Payton Manning that can read defenses and outsmart them. Anyways, here's some reasons I didn't like the trade off the top of my head. 1) the bears just had one of their more productive, efficient, and consistent offenses in a while. Forte just had an amazing rookie season and Orton was home grown and was continuing to grow. 2) while the offense looked better, Forte looked good but only averaged like 3.8 ypc if memory serves me right. It was evident the line would need a solid infusion of youth in the line that it hadn't received yet. The way he was running and with a better line I could see something maybe along the lines of what the Falcons have now. A little above average QB play, combined with a great running game. 3) Most Bronco Fans were happy to see him go. All I read about when talks of a trade were going on was his inaccuracy on deep balls and such. 4) there was too much emphasis on the fact he was a probowl QB. Many QB's have went one time and he just happened to go due to someone else not wanting to go. 5) I just didn't like how he treated the situation. I didn't want a drama queen that said trade me I'm not playing for you. 6) It was like a guy buying a 60 inch plasma screen TV when he couldn't afford cable to me. In my defense: 1) The team had to start over with a new QB and new philosophy. Turner's coaching turned into more of a passing offense. It looked better than this year, but was Grossman-esque from 2005 when the team would be good one weak and horrible the next. Cutler lead the league in INT's. 2) The running game has been nonexistent. The Offensiveline regressed last year to an ok pass blocking and horrible run blocking line to this year starting 7th round picks and not being able to do either. 3) The Bronco Fans have been laughing since. 4) He's still not looking like that pro bowler everyone was talking about 5) You can see that attitude in how he acts on the field and how he just replied to the question about deangelo hall 6) 2 years in and we still can't see whatever potential is there (60 inch tv) because we don't have cable (a line and wr's) I'll never use Orton's name in a shoulda kept him or shouldn't have debate unless someone else brings it up first. He's a completely different discussion that Cutler to me. Cutler is going to get criticism and deserves it. There are smart fans here who will see things differently from time to time. He got a big enough check and he can deal with it (even tho I'm sure he could careless). He'll get his praise from the people that are giving him hell now if he plays well too. Danielle Manning got it when he "found his niche" in kick returns last year. He's even getting more that he is playing well at safety this year. Urlacher was getting dogged by many coming into this season and getting a lot of props for rebounding this one and so on. So right now, while Cutler is playing like crap, you're going to hear about it from people. To me personally, it's what all I feared from the trade coming true at this point. If he plays lights out the rest of the season, I'm sure myself and others will be saying what was I thinking, this guy is awesome. Right now, he hasn't did anything on the field for me to be thinking that yet. We're all Bears fans here, and just want to see what each of us feel is the best for the team.

Marinelli is my big props. Lovie and Bablich both failed at calling this same defense the last couple years, and he has had more success than I thought was possible. Only giving up 10 points when your offense has 6 turnovers is amazing.

Don't get me started on Orton. Always was a fan, always will be. We can argue him out all day. I'd take the QB that can read a defense and 2 1st round OLinemen to block for him and spark a running game over a QB that can throw interceptions farther behind this current line any day.

Cutler is going to get DeAngelo Hall in the Pro Bowl just based off this game.

This has to be the ugliest offensive game i've seen for each team. The defenses are playing well tho. Once again have to give Marenelli props for calling a defense and getting his team prepared that Lovie and Bablich couldn't do the past couple years.

Aikman is notorious for blaming the WR's, he's a QB after all. Both were bad passes, quick ones, and I'm not sure the WR's had a chance to make a play on the bal

They were horrible last year, but a little better than this. What Martz has different on the offensive line then last year is his doing. Spending on Taylor and Manu.. mannu... man just don't want to block no one, and releasing beackman. He has his guys out there.

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I want to see how many hits he has on Cutler at the end of the game, he just did it again

Nice backwards sack by Williams

As would no one else. The Bears paid way too much for him.

He had a concussion this week. So it will be his back up which is also good.

It sounds fine to me. Too many people are getting hurt, how many concussions have you heard of the last 3 or 4 weeks. If anything, I think it's more of a turf issue than the hits for the most part. But the suspension i think will come more off the helmet to helmet ones that gave 2 people a concussion this week from their collision.

Not likely, worst case scenario, the Bears are going to win another 2 or 3 games this year. Combine that with the 4 wins they already have and then they are here next year. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears don't end up 9-7 tho.

24-17 Bears Collins 284 passing forte 45 rushing 65 recieving 1 td Hester 4 catches 85 yards 1 td Bennet 3 catches 45 yards Olsen 3 catches 36 yards 1 TD Peppers 2 sacks No Kool aid, Cutler looked bad behind the line last week, so i can't fault Collins. He had a week of prep, will be ready this time and be respectable. Faith in the D, him, and Carolina sucking due to normal sucktitude and no steve smith the bear killer

But you're putting yourself through a daily struggle not knowing if you will be able to have a chance to eat everyday. If you start looking for that job and stop being satisfied with bottom of the barrel food(ugly wins), eventually you will get the job(new management and coaching). You'll have to stick it out until you get hired and get a pay check, but once you do you can finally have some taco bell. Eventually when you have your life straitened out, you can finally start having steak on occasion. It's all about the quality of life you want and will settle for.

But you're putting yourself through a daily struggle not knowing if you will be able to have a chance to eat everyday. If you start looking for that job and stop being satisfied with bottom of the barrel food(ugly wins), eventually you will get the job(new management and coaching). You'll have to stick it out until you get hired and get a pay check, but once you do you can finally have some taco bell. Eventually when you have your life straitened out, you can finally start having steak on occasion. It's all about the quality of life you want and will settle for.

I say 24 or so. Carolina just sucks worse.