'TD'

Orton will start by the end of the Year, if not all year. I haven't been impressed with Quinn in the NFL.

It's speculation either way if Jerry or Lovie wanted Pace. I remember lots of talk about Omiyale as LG even before the signing of Pace. It really doesn't matter. Scenario: We'll take Pace out of the equation. It's April 1st 2009, a month after Fa started. The lineman are Williams, Schaffer, Omiyale, Beekman, Garza, and Kruetz. Pace is available if you want him tho. What would do you think Angelo would have done to solidify the offensive line if not hampered by Lovie wanting Pace?

They paid him as you would a starter, they first wanted to look at him as guard. The fact that Angelo brought in 2 Tackles after him in Schaffer and Pace only point to them wanting him as a guard. If the coaches thought he was a Tackle instead of guard, then they would be left with 4 tackles and 2 guards.

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=5623 When they brought him in, Angelo said he wanted to look at him as a guard first.

I dunno, I think 10% if fair and no more than 15% imo. They just aren't that great, and that lays on Angelo for bringing them in or the coaches schemes they have played in. I'd go 55% Angelo, 40% Lovie, 5% players personally. This line is atrocious and that in large part is due to how Angelo has approached it. Lovie gets a lot of credit, well blame, for his input on players and personnel after the Super Bowl. The offensive line, however, was never approached appropriately in JA's tenure here. I also think Lovie's input on players would more than likely on defense. I don't blame Frank Omiyale for sucking. I'm sure he is trying hard. I blame Angelo for bringing him to be a starting guard, and the coaches for starting him there and playing him out of position. He's a back up tackle.

No I didn't feel forget Manu. I think on this roster that Clark is the next best Marz type TE. He's already basically said that he wants TE's on the field to block. If he wants a someone to catch the ball, he will just throw an extra WR out there. I don't see him using a whole lot of 2 TE situations with Martz. I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of any 2 TE's outside of Manu being gone . I don't see the value of having more than 2 in a Martz system.

True, a TE will most likely be gone due to roster spots. That last comment was replying to the part about Clark not being a nice fit for Martz's system. From what Martz has said, he is basically the "type" of TE he wants. Manu being obviously the TE he does want. I'm not going to pretend to know who will be gone, or even say who should be gone. I just do not give the article itself that much weight. I haven't heard of the Bears trying to trade Clark until this article. When he mentions it, it's just a little one liner. It doesn't make sense to me to try to trade Clark. His value isn't high and his time here would earn him the right to just explore FA instead of being traded imo.

Atleast he's taller than 6'. He's 6'4 and this WR corp could use some height. I don't know much else bout the guy.

I think he's a pretty good fit, at least a better fit than Davis or Olsen. If I remember right, Dez was the 3rd alternate for TE a couple years ago based on blocking skills. He didn't have a good year yards wise, but ended up goin to the pro bowl that year as a special needs long snapper. Martz wants a guy who can block first then catch. That's what Clark can do. He's just not as young as the other guys.

And what's up with Peppers wearing the Mr. Rogers outfit when he just got 72 million lol.

Lol, you're pumped for he new offseason. You have a new avatar, a new sig, and posted a crapload of threads the last few days. How can anyone question you a bein a bears fan.

Yes, he did indeed. He still had 4.4 yards per carry. It was Pertersons the lowest of his 3 seasons, but it's still a very respectable number. Ie. Chester has only eclipsed that mark twice in his career. Chester Taylor on the other hand had 6 years in a row where he had 4 yards per carry or more. This year was a big drop to 3.6, which is why I'm noting it is possible he is on a decline. That's not good by any means, especially considering Minniy's line and Peterson's 4.4 this year. I mean look at the line that Matt Forte had to play behind last year in comparison. It was brutal, but Forte is still getting flogged for his lack of production. He was able to still pull out the same 3.6 yards per carry that Taylor had.

Score just said the Ravens just traded a 3rd and a 4th for Boldin and a 5th

I'm not trying to be a Negative Nancy here. I love the Manu signing. I love Peppers on the team, not too big on the contract. I know this is an uncapped year, but there is a cap of sorts. There will be a cap of money the Bears will spend on guaranteed money and contracts. I'm sure they have a cap in their head that they aren't spending more. I really don't see his contributions to the team being more then a year or 2. I think that a RB that is going to share time in a Mike Martz offense is less important than the needs in the O-Line and defense. Especially when I can't see him contribute more than 2 years, maybe even one. Who has played at a high level at RB past 32? He will be 31 going into the season.

No one could hit a wall behind the Jets line. That line just ain't here, and if anything TJ's year is the exception to the rule. I mean the guy is going to be 31. It just seems more like a patch to me that could be a waste of money I guess. There were other area of needs the 7 mil guaranteed could have spent on this year instead of a RB that will be 31.

I agree. He hit the 30 year old mark this year, which has been tragic for RB's. Taylor had a career low ypc this year. If the Bears were going to go 30 and over, there were better out there. No reason to go so old tho.

He'll be 31 at the start of the season.

And Burn Notice currently. I swear I'm going to name a kid after the chin.

There is no better example of professional than a player on this team, Dez Clark. Dez dealt with all the draft a TE talk by saying he would welcome a young guy he could mentor and pass on what he knows. Olsen is brought in, there is no conflict and Dez helps him. Dez goes on that year to have a heck of a year at TE. Olsen is worked into the line up and Dez slowly fades away to very little playing time and you don't hear a word.

I actually found it to be quite insulting and actually agree with him on incompetence. It just may not be for the same reasons. A writer on the Bears site writing a fluff peice on how the Bears will do good isn't insulting. Lovie talking about the young players and Martz, and how they will some how excel in his complicated system is something that's fine with me. I don't expected him to say they are screwed. Angelo's statement, however, showed both incompetence and insulted me. Lloyd missed games 5-9 and game 13. He had 7 catches total in the 5 games he played in the second half of the season before the season ender. Plus he was in the dog house bigtime at that point from where he didn't want to play when he was healthy. Booker had 3 catches from week 8 on, all in one game. So, if he and the coaches felt Bennett was good enough to play at the half way part of the season that year, then he is flat out lying, which I find insulting. It's lying to me because it's taking a past mistake, acknowledging the mistake, but passing the blame off in a flat out lie. I also think it shows incompetence in not getting him on the field to get a few catches and game experience when the 2 veterans weren't playing or producing when they did. Now, I know Turner was the OC then. Turner isn't here now. Angelo's view is that setting the course with veterans means you have to stick with veterans even when they a) aren't producing and not even playing, lead to Bennett not seeing the field. He brings in players to the team. To think that veterans and young players cannot coexhist is incompetent. To say Booker and Lloyd stole Bennetts reps to the point he didnt catch a pass is insulting.

He wanted to save 400k on the best LG in the league, so he transitioned him instead of franchising him. Now that LG is in Minny. That was great tho listening that Seattle guy rip him.

I wouldn't knock him for Booker, Lloyd, Muhammed, or Pace. I think if it wasn't for Booker's past here he wouldn't have been brought back. Lloyd was the best WR on the team when he wasn't being an idiot. Muhammad was coming off a career year, and actually wasn't that bad after going back to the Panthers. Pace is an old Rams guy. A few more I would like to add in as positives are Fred Miller, the first year, Garza for next to nothing and becoming a starter on the team for years. John St. Claire was great for what he was brought in for, and competent as a starter at times. Adams has been pretty solid at DT considered what he was brougt in for. The Bears do not bring in a lot of free agents, but I think he was pretty good at finding value pick ups. I too want to see fresh faces brought in once everyone is gone, but I think DePaul probably had a decent to above average success rate compared to the rest of the league.

Well I tried to reply, but it said there was too much text there between what I was quoting and what I wrote in reply. Oh well, I'll keep it short and simple, btw I actually saw the domino's commercial with puffery and it's definition while I was replying. To me, a 3rd round bust isn't an indictment against a gm, I mean we are talking about the 65-100 players picked in the draft. There are a lot more Metcalfs in there than Briggs's. I think that if a player can be brought in near vet minimum that will likely come close to matching what you offer the team in production/ability at your position, then you are a bust. A pick was used to draft the player that didn't need to be spent.

Agreed 100%. I also wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a running back depending on how they feel about Kevin Jones.

Other than the first 3, I think all of these players have been playing on their rookie contract. The extension rule that you and other message boards aggreed to is irrelevant IMO. The extra on Berrian was due to their being 3 starters, 3 role players, and 2 busts listed in the post I replied to. Yes, he is a solid 3rd round pick. However, I wouldn't have counted him as a starter as he may have been considered in the previous post. He did start for the Bears at one point, but was not able to continue that role as he moved on. Ie. I don't consider Danielle Manning a starter at safety, even though he has started that position several times. True, special teams contributions often gets lost in the shuffle. I had forgotten about that and was looking at him soley as a Running Back. That certainly wasn't the role he was drafted for, but yet he found a niche. I'm not sure how I would evaluate the pick without thinking about it a while, since I would probably expect more out of a 3rd rounder. It's no puffery to push my point of view. It was just saying look at other peoples point of views as him as a player so far. Personally, I had compared him to Bennett and got knocked down a peg by everyone. They basically said he showed up fat, out of shape, and showed no potential. While it may be early to label him a "bust", I do think he will need to step up this year. If he doesn't, he won't be be likely to get a contract outside of his rookie one per your criteria. Are you really friggin serious with this BS? Damn, you caught me. I post only on this board, but my inside source tells me that Virginia McCaskey is one of the 50-100 people that come here at this point in the season, and she's senile looking for our ideas. I mean come on, I'm trying to get my fire the staff agenda out there. They aren't doing well enough at that themselves. They haven't been rocked in the papers, on the radio, in their own press conference, by coaches not wanting to come here and interview, or by them flat out turning down jobs. It's my own new idea I want to get out there, even tho it was stated no where in my post. You got me so darn well on the third option. That metaphorical rag makes me see Okwo, Dusty D, Metcalf, Wolfe, and Harrison contributions to the team as not part of a third round success rate. Don't worry, in a week, it'll pass and I'll see them as the great players they are and knock my opinion up to 100%. I don't think you can judge a person as a success or failure in anyone round actually. My disagreeing with you on who is successful in the third round actually isn't a slight against the staff in itself. You have to look at the body of work. The fact you got so defensive about it is a slight against whether you can be be objective or not. I actually posted, because I didn't see your post as objective. I know you are an "Angelo Superfan". That's your thing and that's cool, but I think it blinds you to reality sometimes IMO. You often seem to be polishing a turd to fight off the hordes of brainwashed zombies coming to attack your super hero JA, to realize that it's a turd and their is no horde of zombies, and JA is just a man. There are many flavors in life, and people are partial to each be it chocolate, strawberry, vanilla or what have you. Each person will say their kind is best, and to them they are right. Because they don't like your very berry strawberry, doesn't mean they are out to destroy it, depressed, or on the rag.