Alaskan Grizzly

Oopss....DP

The same could be said about Green Bay. Look how one dimensional they became when Rodgers is hurt. And...if Lacy were hurt how much a drop off their is in their running game. Their D, although run by one of the better Defensive minds in the NFL, is injury riddled much like the Bears'. The only reason they're still in the running is due to Chicago and Detroit's own inepetitude this year.

Did you see last night's game when Brady didn't get the call he thought should have been called on Kendricks? He was about to piss himself he was screaming so much. And there were tons of 'missed calls' against Talib in his coverage of Thomas. And lest I forget the week before on the late game interception against Carolina. I think Brady was more than a little miffed in his not getting his way.

You're absolutely right. Offensive and defensive holding goes on EVERY play during a game, especially in the trenches. Its been this way for years. The calls that seem to gain noteriety are the one's that are near or at the 'point of attack'. Like Bennet's block to back as Forte scooted by for a TD is pretty obvious, as was Bushrod's near choke out with his right arm when McCown threw a TD around the same time. Calls of this nature are hard to miss. I agree and first the buck stops with Trestman. He needs to figure out how to address and put an end to it. The other aspect is the lack ... or less... of leadership in either squad. On D its pretty safe to assume that had Urlacher been playing he would have been able to get people in their proper spots and chastised them when they consistently caused a penatly...hello Bowman and Conte!!!! I swear if I see one more lob over Conte's head without him looking back!!!!! On the offensive side I would think not having Cutler in may be an issue. I don't know that McCown is as much the disciplinarian. Weirdly enough the time in yesterday's game when Mills' shoe came off reminded me of last year when Webb did it and Cutler had to call a timeout to address it. Not sure how Cutler's presence would have changed things...more just an observation. But I'm not sure that Marshall, Forte, Bennett are leaders in the true sense of the word. I do see Garza trying but he's got his hands full with the o-line, especially the rooks.

Gotta say I agree. I made the same observation during the game thread. I was much more frustrated then but the players killed themselves, not the refs. I would normally agree with Cracker that the calls were horse pucky but this trend of negating scoring due to penalties has been on a trend these last few games. I know it happened against Detroit and pretty sure it happened (or at least stopped a drive) against Baltimore. If I believe the referees are conspiring against the Bears then that was an alien ship I saw hovering over my house the other day. But more than likely its just pure undiscipline on the part of the Bears. Like I said in the game thread, they don't deserve to win any further unless they clean this crap up.

I dont the delayed scoring was due to McCowns play. Instead more because of all the penalties .

I will say this now. Based on what I've seen today and the last couple games with the penalties; the Bears do not deserve to win. They've become a disgrace.

If you get a chance and have "faith", this is a great video from Josh. I think I will get his jersey. He's a great man and inspiration. Good luck today Josh!

Thank you mate. I don't think McCown is THE answer either. And yes if our team was on the precipice of going to the SB tomorrow, I'd have to say that McCown would get the start. If it were the next day...maybe Cutler.

As they say, 'this'. Twig, I don't necessarily dislike Cutty. I like the guy, bought his Jersey, sang 'Hosanna' when he came to Chicago, the whole nine yards. It's just that his 'body of work' makes me cringe sometimes. I like many things about him; his strong arm, his aloofness, his intelligence, the fact that he is about as good a QB Chicago has seen. I also dislike him sometimes for the same things...minus the last. I realize this year he's had the distinct disadvantage of being injured and quite possibly could have led the team to the big game had he not been hurt. I also realize the Bears are largely responsible for his wear and tear. So in context, they owe each other something. I think he should be tagged for next year. I'm not sure that if he were to go on the open market (or trade) he'd go to a team he'd be happy with. At this point he might get a back up job on a good team, or a starting job on a bad team (Jax, TB, Minn come to mind). I don't think he wants that. Being tagged will give him another shot at showing his worth and another shot at the Bears giving him the opportunity to get a ring. I don't think McCown should be the starter for the rest of the time he's in Chicago. Never did say that. Just that he's been playing better (like TD says) and hasn't proven yet that he needs to be sit down, especially if Cutler isn't 100%.

"Hocus pocus" in the context you used it and saying that he just wins is a "joke" makes one wonder what your "hope" is. If for nothing else youre not a believer. McCown has done nothing but prove himself. As has Cutler. So far between the two, THIS YEAR, McCown has the better record et winning percentage. I didn't doubt your allegiance to the team, don't cram words. Just said what I said above. And I make no qualm "old associate" or not, I'll debate you just the same.

Please stop this comparison. Its pointless. When you have teams like Carolina (who sucked big time early this year) suddenly finding themselves in playoff contention (in a normally strong NFC South) then every game counts differntly than the last and the rest. SF who was supposed to be dominating and on the verge of returning to the Super Bowl finds themselves one loss away from being out of it. Baltimore is nearly out of it, it not already. Cleveland (did I really say Cleveland?) is in contention for a spot. The NYG (yes the same once 0-6 Giants) are suddenly viable...if only a little. And Detroit is leading our division. The defense that Jay Cutler saw one week could very well be a different defense the weekend following. Factor in injuries etc. He had three turnovers against the Vikings too. One fumble for a direct score. Remember, McCown played against the same Detroit defense (not on the same day as you describe) and nearly won the game..with only two mins to try. You are absolutely right (bolded). Another thing that remains to be seen is how will McCown perform for the rest of the time he's in? Will he continue to win or will he lose? So by your reasoning Cutler is not a game manager, but rather a franchise QB yet lost against the Saints. So the game managers AND franchisers can both lose...if the defense isn't up to par?

There are stories not all that dissimilar; Warren Moon, Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon (of which McCown has been compared) to name a couple. So the probability isn't all that far fetched. But he is "just winning". Posted great numbers against Wash. Did well against GB...at Lambeau. Nearly pulled out a win against Detroit (with only two mins to try) and won against Balt. Granted he's not doing this all on his own, he has Jeffery, Forte, Marshall and Bennett to help but the dude is pretty solid...so far. If you weren't hating on McCown I'd think you would hope him to look horrible, just to prove your point. But if he doesn't then the team wins. Kind of a catch-22 if you ask me.

Daventry my old buddy ol pal. I'd have to say I agree. If we simply look at this year, the comparison sample (between Cutler and McCown) is different. Where Cutler has a tendency (some say knack) for a turnover, McCown has not committed that error - yet. Granted McCown hasn't got a lot of "starting quality" stats over the years, the arguement could be made that he hasn't been in the right system. Same arguement could be made for Cutler with Chicago for that matter, at least until this year. And I won't say he (Cutler) hasn't improved but to again look at the sample for this year where Jay has now had at least three bad games (to include the last Detroit game - not his fault) McCown has yet to falter. I side with Twig that I hope McCown doesn't falter (although I'm not convinced by your sincerity). But I will also stop short of declaring McCown the permanent starter for the team. As will he.

For what its worth (and GFY's aside), Incognito is an ignoramus.

Hm. Who knows? Maybe if he has any inkling of being able to play his old position, perhaps he's breathing new life into his career? Stranger things have happened.

Good points. I'll go with what AZ suggested as that is more amenable to the "middle ground" of this type stuff. And...did you call me a 'bitch'? GFY! LOL

...And I read somewhere the Rodgers says that he might not be available for their contest against Detroit. That could be troublesome for us.

And I think, lending to Jason's insight, that is where plays like that are reviewed for consistency and graded by the peer group. In other words, if I understand correctly, after each game all officials are graded based on their performance. Obviously they (refs) want to be able to eventually gain the noteriety to officiate in the 'big game' so the lower the score, the less chance they get. The LAST thing we need to do is make the game longer by reviewing reviews.

The Bears/Ravens had a similar "trade off" with identical calls. Not necessarily identical plays. The first was a horse collar I think on Jeffery early in the game. Looked like the defender grabbed the back of the jersey to tackle him. Wasn't a horse collar but the manner in which Jeffery fell looked like it. And later in the game Bowman (I think) committed a similar tackle but his hand was more in the vicinity of the actual collar. Then the second example was Julius' roughing the passer play where Flacco started his feet first slide and in an attempt to do the same Peppers bumped Flacco at the end of his slide. Ridiculous call. But later immediately after McCown threw the ball a defender pushed off McCown with two hands who then "flopped" to the ground. Penalty Ravens. So yes, in a manner of speaking, sometimes they do have a tendency to even out.

OMG Crack, aren't games long enough?!?!

This just puts an emphasis on the remaining schedule and how premium the need for winning is. The upcoming games with STL, DAL and PHI are not ones to be taken lightly.

The best arguement similar to what you're referring to is when a ball is tipped while in route to the receiver. If a receiver and defender are locked up, pushing and shoving, while the ball is in its route and it gets tipped, then no penalty. This wasn't really that case. Was Gronk intending to "go to the back of the endzone"? Possibly. Was he impeded in doing that? No. Was Brady's pass intended to go to the back of the endzone? Probably. Did Brady's pass not make it to the intended point? Probably. Could have Gronk tried to return to an errant pass? Maybe. Was he impeded in making that move back to catch an underthrown pass? Didn't look like he tried. These are all things that were considered (according to the later explanations from the officiating folks) and not an easy choice to be made in the heat of the moment. I'm sure it was covered in the post play conference they had on the field. And Gak if you're so against officials making bad calls that determine team's fates, maybe you should have watched the Seattle-GB game last year in Seattle. I think a fair number of GB fans would say that call made a lot of difference in the season that year. I know they were substitute refs but nevertheless, the call stood.

Be careful in saying that just because former players say its wrong, it must be. One of those guys (at least last night) was Dilfer aka "Corndog". I think it was explained pretty well ... after the fact. I think the fact that the ref didnt explain the call is what irked many more than anything. However would that same call been made ...in similar fashion...randomly through any other game...probably not. I do have to admit that watching the smug Brady get it wrong was enriching. Lastly, why would you cheer for Carolina? They are in contention for an NFC spot. They or NO will get the NFC South at this rate, the other .. A much valued wildcard.

Have to agree. Although the defense is young (how many starters out right now?) the potential is there for a strong group. A lot of young unpolished talent. Props to Emery on that. And yes the penalties nearly did the team in. 100+ yards is pretty uncharactersitic for this team, and potentially a killer.