What would you do at QB?

[McGowan]

17 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I just heard the deal for Carson might include a first,  Foles and another offensive player.  I'm thinking Miller. 

I heard it's Foles, Cohen and #20 for Wentz and #37. 

[Uncle Buck]

Great, just great, when’s the guy been able to stay healthy enough? Doug Pederson must really hate Nagy to saddle him with Foles 2.0

[Bill]

54 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I just heard the deal for Carson might include a first,  Foles and another offensive player.  I'm thinking Miller. 

No

[Stinger226]

I just seen Cohen's name mentioned also. I wouldn't do this trade but I'm not Pace.  Maybe it works. 

[Uncle Buck]

If we’re in the market for retreads then inquire about Carr. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I just heard the deal for Carson might include a first,  Foles and another offensive player.  I'm thinking Miller. 

One Rumor is - Bears trade Foles, Miller, and 1st round pick for Wentz and 2nd round pick; but also some reports that no 2nd round pick coming back. To be honest - the deal (with a 2nd rounder) - seems like a total no brained. It basically costs the Bears $16M to get him (because they don't have to pay Foles).  

This puts Robinson in full pay plus still gives you a chance to enhance oline and draft another wideout.

A ton of smoke here. We'll have to see - but Wentz is a really good guy to take a shot on.  When he's been on - he's played at MVP type of level and in both 2017 and 2019 was absolutely fantastic. For anyone that just jumps to his 2020. First - just look at the Eagles WR corps - it was AWFUL.  His 2 best wideouts were an undrafted FA from a couple years ago (Ward) and a 6th round pick who was cut by Lions/Packers before making it to Philly.  

The oline was bad - very bad at pass blocking and the ground game had some talent - but no 1000 yard rusher.  The only plus on the Eagles offense is their TE corps - which is legit.  Add in what by all accounts was a disaster out culture and just a messy offensive room (with too many voices) and obviously a bad HC/QB relationship and I can pretty quickly make excuses for that 2020.  

If you go to 2019 - Wentz was 5th in TD's, was stellar in red zone and on 3rd down (top 5 in both) and was top 3 in INT %. Oh and he did that with a oline that ranked around 20th in passing and a WR corp that had ZERO talent due to injuries.  His top 3 guys were all injured.  Oh and he was stellar in close games too (1 score situations) and was stellar against top 10 defenses.  

Just read this link - sums up 2019 pretty nicely. I'm not saying Wentz is a top 5 QB - but 2020 was the only time since his rookie season where he wasn't a top 10 NFL QB.  Oh and the cap hit will be far less than top 10 pay and will only look better in 2 years if he performs like 2017-2019 Wentz.  

https://www.discussthegame.com/posts/5f2587350b0cf30004326d7a

[DABEARSDABOMB]

For anyone who can ignore 2020 (which is just 1 year). This is Wentz from 2017-2020:

4th in TD%

3rd in INT%

5th in QBR

9th in YPG

8th in Wins

Yes Please is all I can say.  

[Stinger226]

If we are rolling the dice, he is a good option. I seen a tweet from Tarik Cohen and he talked to GM and Nagy and he said he is not going anywhere. I would prefer Carr but not sure he is going anywhere. Why would Gruden go in the season with the 17th pick or Mariota at QB? Carr has cap hits of 22 and 19 mil in the next two years. I dont think Watson is going anywhere either, so LV wont be able to get him.

[adam]

13 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

For anyone who can ignore 2020 (which is just 1 year). This is Wentz from 2017-2020:

4th in TD%

3rd in INT%

5th in QBR

9th in YPG

8th in Wins

Yes Please is all I can say.  

On Wentz, the biggest concern for me is health. If he is healthy, he is an above average QB. His TD to INT ratio from 2017-2019 was 81-21 over 40 games, which is very impressive over that length of time. In his career, he has had 19 300-yd passing games, 37 games with at least 2 TD passes, and only 13 games with multiple INTs in 68 games. He also has had 35 games with a Passer Rating above 90 and only 11 below 70.

Compare to Trubisky who has only had 7 300-yd passing games, 17 games with at least 2 TD passes and 10 games with multiple INTs in 51 games. Trubisky has had 19 games with a Passer Rating above 90 and 14 games below 70. 

So he is a clear upgrade over Foles and Trubisky. The question is, would he be better than the #20 pick?

If Miller is part of the trade, I could care less. That helps the Bears more than hurts them at this point (save some cap). If they can make the money work, at the end of the day I would rather have Wentz and Arob than Foles, Miller, without ARob. If the Bears can get back a 3rd rounder, then that lessens in the impact on the first rounder for me. 

[Mongo3451]

They talked about Wentz a lot this mourning on NFL Network.  Kurt Warner doesn't think he'll get back to form.  Warner has always been pro QB and not very critical.  I'm with Kurt.

[adam]

27 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

They talked about Wentz a lot this mourning on NFL Network.  Kurt Warner doesn't think he'll get back to form.  Warner has always been pro QB and not very critical.  I'm with Kurt.

Wentz had a receiving corps comparable to Bears in 2016 in 2020. The leading WRs were Greg Ward and Travis Fulgham, what does anyone expect a QB to do? Go look at the WRs Wentz has had since his rookie year in 2016. His highest producing WR was Jordan Mathews who had 73-804 in 2016.  He has never had a WR have more than 73 receptions (Mathews 2016) or over 843 receiving yards (Jeffery 2018) in a single season. 

Ertz is the only pass catcher to have over 75 receptions or 900 yards in a season since 2016. Also, the Eagles haven't had a 1K yard rusher in that period either. So Wentz did all of that without a 1K RB or 1K WR. Since Trubisky's rookie year, the Bears have had 2x RB seasons with over 1K and 2x WR seasons with over 1K. Howard also had 935 yds in 2018.

[Mongo3451]

8 minutes ago, adam said:

Wentz had a receiving corps comparable to Bears in 2016 in 2020. The leading WRs were Greg Ward and Travis Fulgham, what does anyone expect a QB to do? Go look at the WRs Wentz has had since his rookie year in 2016. His highest producing WR was Jordan Mathews who had 73-804 in 2016.  He has never had a WR have more than 73 receptions (Mathews 2016) or over 843 receiving yards (Jeffery 2018) in a single season. 

Ertz is the only pass catcher to have over 75 receptions or 900 yards in a season since 2016. Also, the Eagles haven't had a 1K yard rusher in that period either. So Wentz did all of that without a 1K RB or 1K WR. Since Trubisky's rookie year, the Bears have had 2x RB seasons with over 1K and 2x WR seasons with over 1K. Howard also had 935 yds in 2018.

I was thinking about all of that yesterday.  Alston, always hurt.  Desean Jackson, hurt.  Ertz, hurt.  Running back, hurt.  Left tackle and backup left tackle hurt.  Definitely a ton of injuries. 

The knock on Wentz throughout the season was that he was off-scripting the game plan.  He basically dissed the coaches and tried to throw the team on his back by trying to make big plays.  It didn't work and it fractured his relationship with the coach.  It's hard to get past that mindset.  Good thing for us, is that we have great intell.  If they accept it, so will I.

[BearFan PHX]

15 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

IThe knock on Wentz throughout the season was that he was off-scripting the game plan.  He basically dissed the coaches and tried to throw the team on his back by trying to make big plays.  It didn't work and it fractured his relationship with the coach.  It's hard to get past that mindset.  Good thing for us, is that we have great intell.  If they accept it, so will I.

That could be the best thing you can say about him! Maybe he will ignore Nagy and do the right thing LOL

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Not sure what I think of getting Wentz at this point.  I remember rumors were that Pace was making a try for him back when he was drafted so I’m not too surprised he still has a ‘GM-crush’ on him.  Of course he also did for Mariota and we don’t have him so there’s that.  
 

As far as the weapons available;  I agree If they can do whatever they need to keep ARob that is a definite goal they should focus on.  I also read the other day that Jimmy Graham wants to finish his time out in Chicago. Say what you will about the guy but he is a definite red zone threat.   And despite Nagys misuse of him early on he still showed an improvement from his time in GB with Rodgers as his QB.  So if he can make good with the mess we have in our offense then he’s a keeper in my book.  

[BearFan PHX]

One big plus for Wentz is that you can cut him without a cap hit at any point, so the next staff isn't saddled with anything. If it includes any future picks Im against it, but this year's first, Miller and Foles for Wentz? sure. Even without gettign Wentz cheap, that's a bonus. I agree there likely wouldnt be another pick coming back. If there was, that would be amazing. Maybe that's what's going on right now, thyre saying 7th were saying 2nd, haggling to a 5th to a 3rd. cool.

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

That could be the best thing you can say about him! Maybe he will ignore Nagy and do the right thing LOL

🤣

[Connorbear]

20 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

Great, just great, when’s the guy been able to stay healthy enough? Doug Pederson must really hate Nagy to saddle him with Foles 2.0

Pederson is gone from Philly, 

Peace

[Uncle Buck]

31 minutes ago, Connorbear said:

Pederson is gone from Philly, 

Peace

I know. I thought they were buddies , I would assume he’d give him the the skinny on Wentz.

[Uncle Buck]

Just now, Uncle Buck said:

I know. I thought they were buddies , I would assume he’d give him the the skinny on Wentz.

Given that Hurts played and there seemed to be issues there with Wentz, obviously I’m not on the inside but where there is smoke there is fire?

[adam]

15 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

That could be the best thing you can say about him! Maybe he will ignore Nagy and do the right thing LOL

I lol'd at this. Hilarious!  

[adam]

13 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

One big plus for Wentz is that you can cut him without a cap hit at any point, so the next staff isn't saddled with anything. If it includes any future picks Im against it, but this year's first, Miller and Foles for Wentz? sure. Even without gettign Wentz cheap, that's a bonus. I agree there likely wouldnt be another pick coming back. If there was, that would be amazing. Maybe that's what's going on right now, thyre saying 7th were saying 2nd, haggling to a 5th to a 3rd. cool.

HUGE POINT here! Since all the future guarantees become dead money on Philly's books, this becomes a one-year deal, which seems like how long Pace/Nagy have left to prove they are worthy to keep around. 

So if all we are giving up is #20, Miller, and Foles, with the possibility of getting a 3rd or 4th rounder back + Wentz on a one year deal. That seems like it is worth it, especially if it means bringing ARob back. He would immediately become Wentz's best WR he has ever had. Kmet in his 2nd year, Mooney in his 2nd year, Monty in his 3rd. Cohen back from injury. If they can address RT and keep the interior with Whitehair, Daniels, and Mustipher, the offense would be the best group since the Cutler, Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett days. 

[Stinger226]

The Bears brass clearly have to go for it to keep their jobs, so this option makes sense from that point of view. I doubt unless they move up in the draft(more draft capital expended) this is probably their only move with a vet QB. Carr, and Watson has been mentioned but if you were their teams would you let them go unless you get overpaid for it. I wouldnt.  Watson may force his way out  of Houston but that wont happen until he didnt report to camp. We cant wait that long to know or future, nor will many other teams. Carr only goes if Gruden has a better option, where is that coming from with the 17th pick or another vet? Only if they think Mariota is very good now. My choice would be Garner Minshew, but is that a better move? Less expense on cap and for trade. As far as trading with Philly, where are they weak? OL and WR , maybe TE. If not Miller, Kmet?  Mooney?  Daniels? We assume Miller but why we dont mind that he leave is why they may not want him.

[BearFan2000]

2 hours ago, adam said:

HUGE POINT here! Since all the future guarantees become dead money on Philly's books, this becomes a one-year deal, which seems like how long Pace/Nagy have left to prove they are worthy to keep around. 

So if all we are giving up is #20, Miller, and Foles, with the possibility of getting a 3rd or 4th rounder back + Wentz on a one year deal. That seems like it is worth it, especially if it means bringing ARob back. He would immediately become Wentz's best WR he has ever had. Kmet in his 2nd year, Mooney in his 2nd year, Monty in his 3rd. Cohen back from injury. If they can address RT and keep the interior with Whitehair, Daniels, and Mustipher, the offense would be the best group since the Cutler, Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett days. 

My first gut reaction to the thought of trading for Wentz made me sick to my stomach but as I've read through this thread, some of my feelings about a move like this are tainted by recency bias.  2020 was a bad year for Wentz and the Eagles, just like we often say one good game doesn't make a season or one good year doesn't make a career, one bad season should be taken with the same grain of salt.  The more I read here and the more I think about it the more sense it makes.  If we are getting him on basically a 1 year deal and can cut him without any hit if things don't work out and we clean house after 2021.  Then you aren't saddling a new GM/Coach with a QB they don't want.  Any trade that involves us giving up Foles, and Miller, and this years #20, for Wentz and not having to give up future draft picks is as close to a win as you can get.  Maybe we can throw in Wims to help negotiate a higher return pick.  I've gone from no way do I want to trade for Wentz to thinking this could work.  Especially if it allows us to keep ARob at least in 2021.  I know he would not be happy about being tagged, but, perhaps if it's done with the intent to work out a longer term deal that works for him and the team.  Then you go into 2022, possibly with a new coach, new gm, stud WR, all of the 2022 draft capitol, and if we are able to address the line, then you have a shot at going for a franchise QB.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

15 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

I know. I thought they were buddies , I would assume he’d give him the the skinny on Wentz.

Lets not forget - we have DeFillipo as QB coach - and he was Wentz QB coach when Wentz was at his best.  I'd say Nagy has some pretty good inside info from that perspective on Wentz as well.  Additionally - the other team rumored to be on Wentz is the Colts....yes the same Colts team with Reich as HC, who worked extremely closely with Wentz back when Wentz was at his peak. 

It is kind of odd - but to me fact that Bears/Colts are in - with 2 people who worked pretty closely with said player - would tell me they don't think that highly of Pederson's opinion or have enough inside info to tell you the dumpster fire that the Eagles were.  

[jason]

The thing that worries me the most about Wentz is the wrist. I broke mine two years ago, and despite surgery it has never felt right. There are a bunch of little bones in there, and it takes a lot of luck to get back to the original starting point. And he's had several injuries. If he was so good before last year, why did he regress last year? It's likely an accumulation of injuries. Read this take and form your own opinion:

https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/philadelphia-eagles-carson-wentz-concussion-andrew-brandt-20201124.html