QB thread

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

None of the scenarios involving Eberflus coming back are good:

Scenario 1- Bring everybody back

You'd be passing on Williams for the hope that this coach/qb/oc combination will magically work the 3rd time around. This is what we call insanity. 

Scenario 2- Bring everybody back but the OC

You get rid of Getsy, but you've now severely limited the quality of OC's who'd be interested in coming to work for a lame duck head coach and a veteran QB about to learn his 3rd offense in 4 years.

Scenario 3- Keep Eberflus, trade Fields, draft a quarterback

Probably the worst of all the scenarios. You'd be pairing up a rookie quarterback with a defensive minded head coach on the hot seat, leaving yourself open to the (high) possibility of setting the kid down the path of learning 2 offenses in 2 years while being coached by someone who didn't draft him, aka the Chicago Bears specialty.

None of these scenarios would make me feel good about the direction of the franchise, which is why Matt Eberflus has to go, and it's also a reminder why hiring defensive minded head coaches is an absolutely moronic decision for any team that doesn't have an established quarterback.

It's time to start fresh. Get rid of the coach, draft a new quarterback, and bring in an offensive mind who's on the same timeline as everyone else. 

Yes. This seems obvious to me too.

Of course we have to get the rookie QB and the new coach right or we're back in hell again too, but staying with a losing hand isn't gonna get us anywhere either.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

None of the scenarios involving Eberflus coming back are good:

Scenario 1- Bring everybody back

You'd be passing on Williams for the hope that this coach/qb/oc combination will magically work the 3rd time around. This is what we call insanity. 

Scenario 2- Bring everybody back but the OC

You get rid of Getsy, but you've now severely limited the quality of OC's who'd be interested in coming to work for a lame duck head coach and a veteran QB about to learn his 3rd offense in 4 years.

Scenario 3- Keep Eberflus, trade Fields, draft a quarterback

Probably the worst of all the scenarios. You'd be pairing up a rookie quarterback with a defensive minded head coach on the hot seat, leaving yourself open to the (high) possibility of setting the kid down the path of learning 2 offenses in 2 years while being coached by someone who didn't draft him, aka the Chicago Bears specialty.

None of these scenarios would make me feel good about the direction of the franchise, which is why Matt Eberflus has to go, and it's also a reminder why hiring defensive minded head coaches is an absolutely moronic decision for any team that doesn't have an established quarterback.

It's time to start fresh. Get rid of the coach, draft a new quarterback, and bring in an offensive mind who's on the same timeline as everyone else. 

I think Poles either gets rid of everyone or keep everyone but any of these choices are premature.

If we win 3- or more games, probably keep everyone, if we only win one or two, everybody probably goes. 

[BearFan PHX]

I'm starting to look into the rookie QBs, and there are quite a few intriguing prospects. Williams and Maye seem to dominate the headlines, but I think there are other good options too.

I get the hype around Williams, but can anyone make the case to me about why Drake Maye is a presumptive #2 on that list? Some even have have him as #1. Im not looking for that debate, because it's really a Williams debate, and Im not ready for that yet, i still dont know what to think about him.

But other than being 6' 5", Maye lags behind a bunch of these QBs in stats, so why is he so highly regarded over the others? Is anyone here a Maye guy, and if so, please make the case?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

31 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I'm starting to look into the rookie QBs, and there are quite a few intriguing prospects. Williams and Maye seem to dominate the headlines, but I think there are other good options too.

I get the hype around Williams, but can anyone make the case to me about why Drake Maye is a presumptive #2 on that list? Some even have have him as #1. Im not looking for that debate, because it's really a Williams debate, and Im not ready for that yet, i still dont know what to think about him.

But other than being 6' 5", Maye lags behind a bunch of these QBs in stats, so why is he so highly regarded over the others? Is anyone here a Maye guy, and if so, please make the case?

There is no one with the film Williams has in my mind. His arm talent is special and he had tons of experience playing and had to deal with suspect olines etc. 

Mccarthy is the next in my mind from a pure talent perspective but he doesn’t have near the reps and lack of reps is a real issue for guys making the jump. 
 

Penix is a nice pocket passer but too slow of a release and just not athletic enough. Screams mac jones to me. He is also old. 
 

Bo Nix had to transfer and something seems off but I get the intrigue. He did well at Oregon this year.

Daniels I haven’t watched enough to say anything. 

Maye looks the part but I haven’t seen the hype but haven’t watched him a ton either. 
 

[Pixote]

29 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I'm starting to look into the rookie QBs, and there are quite a few intriguing prospects. Williams and Maye seem to dominate the headlines, but I think there are other good options too.

I get the hype around Williams, but can anyone make the case to me about why Drake Maye is a presumptive #2 on that list? Some even have have him as #1. Im not looking for that debate, because it's really a Williams debate, and Im not ready for that yet, i still dont know what to think about him.

But other than being 6' 5", Maye lags behind a bunch of these QBs in stats, so why is he so highly regarded over the others? Is anyone here a Maye guy, and if so, please make the case?

I'm not that impressed with either of the two, Williams or Maye. Neither one, in the games I watched, showed they were solid against the top ranked teams. They both have IMO way too many question marks to risk a #1 pick on.

There are some very good prospects at QB that will also be first round selections, but we could easily select one of them with the Bears' #1 in the top 10 and use the #1 from Carolina to harvest a monster deal that could set the Bears up for an awesome future.

 

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah, I think it could be a case of media narratives from two months ago that just havent died yet. Maye is in the mix, but i dont see him as head and shoulders above the others, at least by the stats.

I still need to watch a lot more film and analysis, and a lot of that hasnt even been created yet because for most of the world, it's still NFL midseason lol

[adam]

35 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I'm starting to look into the rookie QBs, and there are quite a few intriguing prospects. Williams and Maye seem to dominate the headlines, but I think there are other good options too.

I get the hype around Williams, but can anyone make the case to me about why Drake Maye is a presumptive #2 on that list? Some even have have him as #1. Im not looking for that debate, because it's really a Williams debate, and Im not ready for that yet, i still dont know what to think about him.

But other than being 6' 5", Maye lags behind a bunch of these QBs in stats, so why is he so highly regarded over the others? Is anyone here a Maye guy, and if so, please make the case?

Honestly, I think it comes down to this. If the Bears get the #1 pick, they are drafting Williams. Even if Fields plays better, I just can't see Poles putting all his chips into that basket and going two years in a row with the #1 pick and missing on both Stroud and potentially Williams. Williams is no sure thing, but like others and you have said, he hasn't had the best team around him and literally carried the team on his back a few times. 

I think if there is any other pick, I think the Bears keep Fields, trade down and gain draft capital (maybe a 2025 1st), and just keep building up the entire roster. 

[Stinger226]

1 minute ago, adam said:

Honestly, I think it comes down to this. If the Bears get the #1 pick, they are drafting Williams. Even if Fields plays better, I just can't see Poles putting all his chips into that basket and going two years in a row with the #1 pick and missing on both Stroud and potentially Williams. Williams is no sure thing, but like others and you have said, he hasn't had the best team around him and literally carried the team on his back a few times. 

I think if there is any other pick, I think the Bears keep Fields, trade down and gain draft capital (maybe a 2025 1st), and just keep building up the entire roster. 

I'm not sure Poles should be criticized for passing on Stroud. In the draft he was never lauded as a special QB, he was the second best prospect last year. Poles just dismantled hid team, Fields showed to have special traits. He needed to add weapons for the QB. Moore and 2 first rounders redefine your team. It's great that Stroud is doing well but no one predicted that. Post judging is always going to win over pre judging.

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah Im not asking about Fields vs whoever, or even about Williams - those are all excellent topics - Im just asking if anyone can make the case for Maye - not over Justin, just over the other rookies, even not including Williams.

Like, why is Maye better than Penix, McCarthy, Daniels or Nix? It doesnt even need to be someone who thinks that, I just want to include the arguments in my thinking so I know what to watch for in his film. Obviously i can just watch the film, but im trying to give each QB the benefit of the doubt when I look at them, and im not sure why Maye is (seemingly!) rated so much more highly than the others?

So even if you dont buy into them, what are the talking points about why maye is better than those other four? All I can find is that he's 6' 5" and a bunch of thoughts about him before this season played out?

I do see some commentators saying they like him better than Williams, but then they just pick apart Williams, and say nothing about why Maye would be the next choice over the others?

[Mongo3451]

I like Maye.  He's the most accurate QB in the draft with a fast release and cannon arm.  He doesn't have the flashy numbers the others do, but he and McCarthy are the ones that play in a pro style offenses.  Maye is also asked to look off both safeties, while the others are not asked to die to their restricted offenses.  He also doesn't have near the skill weapons of the other QBs.  Lastly, he's from a highly athletic and competitive family.   He's been practicing that mental competitive toughness his whole life.

[BearFan PHX]

2 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I like Maye.  He's the most accurate QB in the draft with a fast release and cannon arm.  He doesn't have the flashy numbers the others do, but he and McCarthy are the ones that play in a pro style offenses.  Maye is also asked to look off both safeties, while the others are not asked to die to their restricted offenses.  He also doesn't have near the skill weapons of the other QBs.  Lastly, he's from a highly athletic and competitive family.   He's been practicing that mental competitive toughness his whole life.

Interesting - thank you.

When you say accurate, youre talking eye test with ball placement, and not completion percentage I assume?

His completion percentage and QB rating, while both good numbers, are the lowest out of all six. not that there is anything wrong with a 63.8% completion percentage or a 151 QB rating!

Also Im going off of stats that are a week old, the last time I compiled them.

[Pixote]

I was just watching a video on YouTube with a guy named Ryan Wilson showed his latest mock. He has New England trading the Bears for the #1 overall pick. The Bears would get their #1, #2, & #4 in 2004 along with a #3 in 2005. New England would draft Caleb Williams #1 overall. With the Bears' first pick (#2 overall) we would select Marvin Harrison Jr.

Just curious what you guys would think about this mock. Would you make the deal?

 

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I was just watching a video on YouTube with a guy named Ryan Wilson showed his latest mock. He has New England trading the Bears for the #1 overall pick. The Bears would get their #1, #2, & #4 in 2004 along with a #3 in 2005. New England would draft Caleb Williams #1 overall. With the Bears' first pick (#2 overall) we would select Marvin Harrison Jr.

Just curious what you guys would think about this mock. Would you make the deal?

 

on the face of it Id make that deal all day long.

It would depend on what my scouts were telling me about Williams though. But from where im standing right now (early thoughts), I would be happy with a few of the other QBs in the draft. Maybe even if Williams was also available, I might still prefer one or two. Again, early thoughts.

But if I took that trade, I'd take MHJr at #2, my QB at pick #4 or #5 (if we had that) and call it having my cake and eating it too x 2. Id get MHJr, my QB AND a trade down of pick #1 to stock my draft.

Id use that 2nd rounder to take best player available at OC, OT, FS or DL.

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I was just watching a video on YouTube with a guy named Ryan Wilson showed his latest mock. He has New England trading the Bears for the #1 overall pick. The Bears would get their #1, #2, & #4 in 2004 along with a #3 in 2005. New England would draft Caleb Williams #1 overall. With the Bears' first pick (#2 overall) we would select Marvin Harrison Jr.

Just curious what you guys would think about this mock. Would you make the deal?

 

If we end up with the first pick, he more likely can trade it for more than he got last year with higher graded QB prospects,  the team is still lacking  blue chip players. Now if he thinks Williams is special, he will take Williams, it's all about how he grades the QBs. If either QB is not as projected, he could trade back twice. Imagine the haul he could get in that case. Some genius said to win a SB, you need at least 10-12 blue chip players. Never broke that down to know how true that might be.

[Mongo3451]

59 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Just curious what you guys would think about this mock. Would you make the deal?

💯

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I like Maye.  He's the most accurate QB in the draft with a fast release and cannon arm.  He doesn't have the flashy numbers the others do, but he and McCarthy are the ones that play in a pro style offenses.  Maye is also asked to look off both safeties, while the others are not asked to die to their restricted offenses.  He also doesn't have near the skill weapons of the other QBs.  Lastly, he's from a highly athletic and competitive family.   He's been practicing that mental competitive toughness his whole life.

watching film, and seeing what you're talking about. NFL style QB and offense, fast reads hell of an arm and huge. Makes good fast decisions.

And to the idea that NC QBs dont translate to the pro game because of Trubisky, that was under Bill Dooley, since then, Mack Brown has been the coach, and the previous QB to Maye at NC was Sam Howell, who wasnt anywhere near as well rated as Maye, but his abilities have translated into being competent in the NFL, so there is something to be said for the NC offensive system and QB training.

Too bad we wont see him in the college playoffs.

[Stinger226]

He's an article on the top QBs in the draft.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2023/11/28/qb-prospects-2024-nfl-draft-qbr-rankings-week-13/71727454007/

[Stinger226]

 

 

Here is another website that rates players I like to look at.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/QB/1/2024

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

here is another 

[BearFan PHX]

if you go to that site, and click all, you can see the intra-positional rankings, and get a guess at where QBs might go - of course ratings are subjective and different teams drafting will have different needs and ratings on players, but overall if you see a gug going int he top 10, they probably wont be there are pick 20 for example.

It looks like 4 QBs in the top 10.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/ALL/1/2024

[adam]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

 

 

Here is another website that rates players I like to look at.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/QB/1/2024

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

here is another 

There is one red flag for me on Williams that will come out at the combine. Some say he is not 6'1" and may only be 6'0", I know that may not seem like a lot but the NFL O and D-Lines are traditionally on average taller than the average college O-Lines because they are the elite of the elite. Maye, Daniels, and Penix are all 6'3" and above. Fields is 6'3", Trubisky was 6'2". So if Williams comes in shorter, that may hurt his stock. 

[adam]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

if you go to that site, and click all, you can see the intra-positional rankings, and get a guess at where QBs might go - of course ratings are subjective and different teams drafting will have different needs and ratings on players, but overall if you see a gug going int he top 10, they probably wont be there are pick 20 for example.

It looks like 4 QBs in the top 10.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/ALL/1/2024

Don't look at 2023's lol. Bryce Young, #1 prospect with a 93.7 rating. The best WR, Quentin Johnson. Darnell Wright, the 44th best prospect. Gervon Dexter was 124th.

It feels easier to rank them within their position groups than it is to merge them into one consensus list. 

[BearFan PHX]

4 minutes ago, adam said:

There is one red flag for me on Williams that will come out at the combine. Some say he is not 6'1" and may only be 6'0", I know that may not seem like a lot but the NFL O and D-Lines are traditionally on average taller than the average college O-Lines because they are the elite of the elite. Maye, Daniels, and Penix are all 6'3" and above. Fields is 6'3", Trubisky was 6'2". So if Williams comes in shorter, that may hurt his stock. 

yeah, 6' 3" is one thing, but 6' 1" or even worse, 6' 0" is another.

Course tell that to Doug Flutie LOL

[BearFan PHX]

5 minutes ago, adam said:

Don't look at 2023's lol. Bryce Young, #1 prospect with a 93.7 rating. The best WR, Quentin Johnson. Darnell Wright, the 44th best prospect. Gervon Dexter was 124th.

It feels easier to rank them within their position groups than it is to merge them into one consensus list. 

Oh Im not saying there wont be busts, or future studs that arent highly ranked - just that even Ryan Leaf was high on peoples lists, so he was gonna go early.

Im trying to think of the players that were highly ranked, and slid the most.

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, both for marijuana LOL

Aaron Rodgers fell from #2 to 24th I think?

But I guess in general, highly ranked players, future studs and busts alike, still get drafted high?
 

[BearFan PHX]

Jaden Daniels wins the Heisman.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

24 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

yeah, 6' 3" is one thing, but 6' 1" or even worse, 6' 0" is another.

Course tell that to Doug Flutie LOL

Not necessarily a fan of Williams’ but Drew Brees is/was 6’0”.   Allegedly.  
 

I remember someone saying years ago he often had to stand on his toes to get a clearer shot of his target.