Yet another Caleb Williams Red Flag

[Stinger226]

There is no doubt he has a talented arm but we also know many QBs have not been successful in the NFL not because of their talent but because of their character. 

Lots of talk out there in the beginning about only wanting to play where he wants, clamouring about demands he may want. Everything said is not true but noting isn't true either. Some of it is.

Red flags: no agent

                  dad wanting to be involved

                  Wanting to change the rules of rookie contracts- not fair

                  Wanting to  be treated differently

                  No medical at the combine

                   He thinks he's better than Mahones without playing no snaps in the                       NFL

                  He wants to play in Washington, no surprise, he grew up there. He did                     the public relations tour  about playing anywhere but him blowing off                     our 30 visit is huge. He's only doing the teams that could draft him.                       We are the most likely. 

                  If we draft him he will hold out. There is a pay structure in place but                         he thinks  its not. fair. He needs to win the locker room and will only                        divide it more holding out..Fields is a total team guy, Caleb will come                       in with a me me attitude. It simply won't work.

Just wait and see, I predict he will take his 30 visit in Washington before he comes here. He is going to try to get to Washington .I'm questioning his character, not his talent. 

 

[BearFan PHX]

Williams is not dumb - he wants to bond with his team and win, and wont hold out over anything that literally cannot be changed. If Caleb is selfish, he wants to win games and make a fortune in ads.

The only two issues possible are % of guaranteed money, which for the last four #1 picks was 100% and will be for Caleb too, so that's off the table.

All that would be left is offset language that says that if the Bears cut him or trade him, that any money the new team pays him would also count as a deduction on what the Bears owe - so he wouldnt be double paid. SInce that would require us to cut him or trade him, it's extremely unlikely to happen. And since the rookie deal is so cheap, I dont think that would be terribly important to us either.

So we could unilaterally take the only two possible reasons to hold out off the table with very little risk to us.

So if Caleb holds out, it's Poles holding out too. I just dont see it.

I dont see any of this anti Caleb stuff - I think it's just left over sour apples about Fields.

We've got a superhero coming in and this is the way we act. LOL Caleb, they dont deserve you.

Walter Payton, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady - all incredibly confident alpha types who were overly competitive. GOOD. We need that. I dont want a good little school boy. I want a winner, and if that means he has to drag the team and coaches around him into winning, then good we finally have that guy.

I wanted that guy to be head coach, but if its the starting QB Im not mad at it at ALL.

 

[BearFan PHX]

Oh and St. Justin didn't sign until June 11th, and his deal included no offset language.

But if Williams wants the same, he's a bad guy. lol

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

We've got a superhero coming in and this is the way we act. LOL Caleb, they dont deserve you.

And the Field supporters are ‘cultish’.  🙄

This guy hasn’t played a single NFL down and suddenly not only is he the second coming but now he’s compared to the likes of Payton, Brady and Jordan?  

[BearFan PHX]

Just now, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And the Field supporters are ‘cultish’.  🙄

This guy hasn’t played a single NFL down and suddenly not only is he the second coming but now he’s compared to the likes of Payton, Brady and Jordan?  

in terms of his attitude yes. I wasnt saying he was already a superstar, I was saying he has epic swagger, and his not being humble could be a good thing as a leader and a winner.

And yes, it really does feel cultish. And not just to me, but lots of pundits, reporters and NFL people.

Fields is mediocre at best, and there is just so much emotion here, and we aren't even talking about Fields, we're talking about a different kid entirely, and STILL it's about Fields.

You guys can pick at me all you want, but it isn't about me at all. Fields is not good. No one in the NFL is offering a first rounder for him. Williams is good. He is worth the first overall pick and a likely huge haul to get him.

That's just the truth. You can think whatever you want, but being so cocky about something that makes no sense is "cultish"

[Pixote]

54 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

 I just saw that the decision is Warrens.  Kinda scary tbh. Same with the forcing the coach on him.  I hope this isn't the case.  It sounds to Bear like to not be true. FML

I would hope that is not the case. No GM can do his job properly with that type of limitation. 

[BearFan PHX]

58 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

 I just saw that the decision is Warrens.  Kinda scary tbh. Same with the forcing the coach on him.  I hope this isn't the case.  It sounds to Bear like to not be true. FML

where did you see this?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

7 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

And yes, it really does feel cultish. And not just to me, but lots of pundits, reporters and NFL people

Besides David Kaplan, who are these other “pundits, reporters and NFL people”? 
 

9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

No one in the NFL is offering a first rounder for him.

You know this to be fact?  
 

9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

That's just the truth. You can think whatever you want, but being so cocky about something that makes no sense is "cultish"

The part about “making no sense” is an opinion you hold.  But the part about “being so cocky…” is accurate.  Especially if you’re wrong. 

Still you haven’t explained how comparing ‘apples to apples’ between Williams and Fields collegiately makes you sure Williams will be able to make the NFL transition successfully.  You’ve asked me to watch your films, which I will, but nowhere have you been able to explain based on his product and performance SO FAR that he’ll do better in the NFL than will Fields.  

[BearFan PHX]

37 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Besides David Kaplan, who are these other “pundits, reporters and NFL people”? 
 

You know this to be fact?  
 

The part about “making no sense” is an opinion you hold.  But the part about “being so cocky…” is accurate.  Especially if you’re wrong. 

Still you haven’t explained how comparing ‘apples to apples’ between Williams and Fields collegiately makes you sure Williams will be able to make the NFL transition successfully.  You’ve asked me to watch your films, which I will, but nowhere have you been able to explain based on his product and performance SO FAR that he’ll do better in the NFL than will Fields.  

I am predicting Williams' success based on skills I see him showing off on film.

Justin's biggest problems in the NFL are the same things he showed on his college film.

Caleb is a #1 pick, the 1st QB taken, Justin was a #11 pick, the 4th QB taken.

Also, Justin has played in the NFL for 3 years now, and we can see who he is.

How do I know that no one has offered a first rounder for him? Because we didnt trade him. How do I know we want to trade him? Because Poles said he was trying to get it all done quick to "be fair to Justin" that isnt language youd use for your franchise QB.

Now, I am done hearing about how I am so sure of myself. I am sure of THIS. I am not always sure. This isnt about my character its about how incredibly dumb not drafting Williams would be. It's not even close.

Watch the film. Until you do you dont know what youre talking about, youre just repeating things you read that were written to get clicks. if you watch the film, then you will know. If you watch and still disagree, then we can talk.

It's like youre telling me the earth is flat. People think that. Do they have a right to? Yes they do. But it isnt rude of me to call it delusional. it is freaking ridiculous

Lemme find you another clip of a national NFL reporter showing you exactly how inane this argument is. Look at her face, she is literally stunned they are even asking the question straight up. Then calls it "emotional"

Im sorry that the fact that Justin isnt very good and that we are about to draft a major prospect is hurting everyones feelings, but it has nothing to do with me, so I think its time for people to deal with their emotions in a way other than taking it out on me. I was early to say Fields wasnt good. And I was right. You can all (Justin lovers) be as nasty as you like, while simultaneously saying Im the nasty one, but it's cultish.

Play from 24:30
 

 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Oh and St. Justin didn't sign until June 11th, and his deal included no offset language.

But if Williams wants the same, he's a bad guy. lol

The post has nothing to do about Field's it's about discussing potential problems with our possible next QB. I'm talking about his dad stating, the rookie QB structure is unfair and I can see him thinking he's that special guy to change the NFL rules. You were one of the biggest proponents to not being sure about Williams character. Now after the combine, didn't work out, didn't do the medicals, E is all of a sudden, the next Mahones. 

Every high pick has a chance of not being worth where you take them, Williams isn't different. Po!es needs to be sure. He gets fired if he makes the wrong choice. We just change who we talk about.

[Stinger226]

44 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I am predicting Williams' success based on skills I see him showing off on film.

Justin's biggest problems in the NFL are the same things he showed on his college film.

Caleb is a #1 pick, the 1st QB taken, Justin was a #11 pick, the 4th QB taken.

Also, Justin has played in the NFL for 3 years now, and we can see who he is.

How do I know that no one has offered a first rounder for him? Because we didnt trade him. How do I know we want to trade him? Because Poles said he was trying to get it all done quick to "be fair to Justin" that isnt language youd use for your franchise QB.

Now, I am done hearing about how I am so sure of myself. I am sure of THIS. I am not always sure. This isnt about my character its about how incredibly dumb not drafting Williams would be. It's not even close.

Watch the film. Until you do you dont know what youre talking about, youre just repeating things you read that were written to get clicks. if you watch the film, then you will know. If you watch and still disagree, then we can talk.

It's like youre telling me the earth is flat. People think that. Do they have a right to? Yes they do. But it isnt rude of me to call it delusional. it is freaking ridiculous

Lemme find you another clip of a national NFL reporter showing you exactly how inane this argument is. Look at her face, she is literally stunned they are even asking the question straight up. Then calls it "emotional"

Im sorry that the fact that Justin isnt very good and that we are about to draft a major prospect is hurting everyones feelings, but it has nothing to do with me, so I think its time for people to deal with their emotions in a way other than taking it out on me. I was early to say Fields wasnt good. And I was right. You can all (Justin lovers) be as nasty as you like, while simultaneously saying Im the nasty one, but it's cultish.

Play from 24:30
 

 

I seen a breakdown of Caleb's throws for 2023. He literally had 60 plays where he held the ball for over 6 seconds. I would bet Justin never did that his whole career.

Because IYO you  think everything you state are set in stone, it's not true. There is points on who to go with on both sides. I will accept which choice Poles makes because he fully vetted the prospect. You will not accept, if he chooses Justin. It's OK because you don't have to, but I don't have to buy your opinion totally either. 

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I seen a breakdown of Caleb's throws for 2023. He literally had 60 plays where he held the ball for over 6 seconds. I would bet Justin never did that his whole career.

you saw some edited crap. watch full games, otherwise you're just talking crap. I have seen Caleb throw the ball in tempo and structure dozens and dozens of times. If youre saying he cant do that, then you are just wrong.

If you dont know, you dont know.

I cant keep explaining it to you guys. If you want to live in fantasy world, then fine. I dont care.

But just remember when Caleb comes to Chicago and lights is up you were against him. Pathetic.

[Stinger226]

2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

you saw some edited crap. watch full games, otherwise you're just talking crap. I have seen Caleb throw the ball in tempo and structure dozens and dozens of times. If youre saying he cant do that, then you are just wrong.

If you dont know, you dont know.

I cant keep explaining it to you guys. If you want to live in fantasy world, then fine. I dont care.

But just remember when Caleb comes to Chicago and lights is up you were against him. Pathetic.

Its pathetic you can't read , I have already said 50 times that IF, Poles chooses Williams, I accept he made the right choice. You won't see me bring negatives about him going forward. None of that means I have to Crown him king without throwing one ball in the NFL. Your putting him in the Hall of fame already.

I never took to time to break his plays down, A ESPN writer did. It's a fact, sorry you don't like that fact.

[BearFan PHX]

34 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I never took to time to break his plays down, A ESPN writer did. It's a fact, sorry you don't like that fact.

That's why youre ignorant and have no idea what youre talking about. Watch some film. Ill put a link below 20 minutes with Kurt Warner. You trust him. Its not highlights or lowlights, its a full game in context, against a quality opponent - so you can see how he comes back from a bad throw etc. Use your eyes and tell me you dont see Caleb playing on time and in structure.

And this game wasnt cherry picked - Id never seen it before the other day when I searched on youtube for something I hadnt seen so I could "wager" with Grizz about it without manipulating the outcome. He didnt watch it either.

You can even hear Warner saying that is isnt one of his highlight games.

If you dont watch all 22 game tape, then youre just hypnotized by someone elses narrative.

Use your own eyes and then tell us fairly what you see. I challenge you. 20 minutes. Just tell us what you see.

Does he hold the ball too long?
Does he make multiple reads?
Does he manipulate the pocket?
How is his release?
Are WRs hit in time and with location to get YAC?
Does he throw with anticipation?
How about velocity?

Not every play is great in this. But watch it, and then tell us if what that stupid sportswriter wrote is true, or whether they lied to you for clickbait and got you all upset defending a lie all this time.
 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

49 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

But watch it, and then tell us if what that stupid sportswriter wrote is true, or whether they lied to you for clickbait

Ironic how just a few stanzas ago you used sportswriter Diana Rossini’s “reaction” to emphasize how “idiotic” it is to still consider Justin Fields as the Bears QB.  

[BearFan PHX]

Just now, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Ironic how just a few stanzas ago you used sportswriter Diana Rossini’s “reaction” to emphasize how “idiotic” it is to still consider Justin Fields as the Bears QB.  

I was using it as proof that I am not the only one that thinks that.

I use tape as proof that Caleb isnt what they say he is.

Watch the tape and then youll know too.

[BearFan PHX]

I dont get why you guys wont watch the tape. And if you wont look for yourself why youre so mad that I dont agree with what someone else that you dont even know wrote.

If you watch youll see this isnt arrogance, its just thast the narrative that Williams holds the ball too long is a lie. You dont need to take my word for it, just look for yourself.

[ParkerBear7]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:10 PM, BearFan PHX said:

lol yes! there is nothing immoral about Justin Fields!

I like the kid, I really do. He is an incredible athlete, but his skills dont really add up to a QB position. Im serious when I say he reminds me of Hester. In 2022 he was a threat to score any time he touched the ball. His open field running is legendary status.

But then two things happened - one is the Bears obviously told him not to make any moves on defenders in the open field, and to slide to avoid injury - which makes sense but took away his greatest strength. and two is that defenses realized he wouldnt surgically punish them if they adjusted their defensive front to contain his running. In fact they learned how to push his mental buttons to get him to run right into their linemen.

And so he cant really ever succeed as an NFL QB. He'd have to punish teams with anticipatory timing throws across the middle before hed get an honest defensive front and be able to run again.

I mean, he will break off more highlights, but he wont be able to consistently move chains and score that way. So he's finished.

But he's not a bad guy. He's an incredible athlete, a hard worker and a hell of a nice person. A good leader too.

He just had this incredible flash of open field ability that made everyone fall in love with him, but it's not enough to attack NFL defenses that adjust to it without a complementary on time passing skill.

You could be the best rock thrower in rock paper scissors, but if you dont have a scissors counter move, your opponent learns to always play paper and beat your rock, and if you cant burn them with scissors, youre done. No matter how well you throw that rock.

Today’s NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. We all see that QBs are rushed in quickly often to both the organizations and payers detriment.  

 

Unfortunately, the Bears have been light years behind in both identifying and developing QBs.  Even when they get one with talent, they historically can’t protect him, give him ample weapons and or fail to develop a modern offensive scheme.  Jay Cutler has been this Franchise’s greatest modern QB up until this point and everything I just stated is fact.  

When Chicago drafted Fields I honestly did not know much about him but was just hoping they wouldn’t screw him up (i.e. Rex Grossman) especially since we just got burned by Pace and his stupid trade up for Trubisky…. Mitch was a good kid and athlete but just never had the “it factor” and never should have been 1st round pick.  Pace was inexperienced and so was Mitch.  When Fields started dropping in the draft, Pace trade up with NY out of desperation thinking he could reset the clock which fortunately never happened.  However, the Bears organization once again proved to be inept at everything.  Who knows where Justin Fields could have been developmentally wise had he gone to a great organization?  We all see he has some amazing talents at the QB position yet there are some undeniable weaknesses that hold him back and may not even be entirely his fault.  Look Justin is a great kid and he alone made the 2022 season watchable and there is nothing more than I would like to see him succeed but whether it’s fair or not, most likely will not be here as both timing (when drafted) and time are not on his side.

Unfortunately, Justin Fields may be closer to Tim Tebow than Patrick Mahomes.  Both are great guys and extremely athletic but the teams that drafted them were a complete disaster.  If it doesn’t work out here with the Bears, I hope he finds a team that can develop him.

One thing’s for sure, having the 1st overall pick in the draft two years in a row beats the hell out of picking between 12-20 for the past two decades which is the quintessential definition of mediocrity!

We would not be in this position if the Bears didn’t finally do something aggressive and smart:  Fired both Pace and Nagy with time left on their contracts.  I say smart because they finally may have got lucky to hire someone as smart as Ryan Poles whom has done a very good job at deconstructing and then constructing this roster over the past two years.

I really do see the big picture and how important this offseason and draft will be on this organization for the next decade or two.

There are a few very intriguing QB prospects coming out this year and are all in play with our two first round picks this year. Likewise, it’s a really deep WR and Offensive Tackle draft.  What should Ryan Poles do?  Not an easy decision because of time; remember what I said about the NFL being a mult-billon dollar business, well to often time is not luxury in the modern game for those entrusted to build a roster and win a championship.

Sox fans only need to look at what was supposed to be a successful rebuild only for it to blow up in our faces.

So, if time isn’t a factor, then the prudent GM trades back and loads the roster with more talent before being “all in” to win.  Something the Sox recently failed at.

However, we all know that time is a factor and the reality is, if there is a generational talent at QB then you have to take your swing and hopefully you knock it out of the park!

I’m admittedly in the camp that likes Justin Fields enough to keep him this season, but also wanting Poles to draft a QB this year as well as doing some trading back to continue to build out this roster.

Everyone seems to have the opinion that Poles must dump Justin  to draft a QB in round one this year?  Why not hedge your bets and do both after all, iron sharpens iron!

Go Bears!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, ParkerBear7 said:

Today’s NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. We all see that QBs are rushed in quickly often to both the organizations and payers detriment.  

 

Unfortunately, the Bears have been light years behind in both identifying and developing QBs.  Even when they get one with talent, they historically can’t protect him, give him ample weapons and or fail to develop a modern offensive scheme.  Jay Cutler has been this Franchise’s greatest modern QB up until this point and everything I just stated is fact.  

When Chicago drafted Fields I honestly did not know much about him but was just hoping they wouldn’t screw him up (i.e. Rex Grossman) especially since we just got burned by Pace and his stupid trade up for Trubisky…. Mitch was a good kid and athlete but just never had the “it factor” and never should have been 1st round pick.  Pace was inexperienced and so was Mitch.  When Fields started dropping in the draft, Pace trade up with NY out of desperation thinking he could reset the clock which fortunately never happened.  However, the Bears organization once again proved to be inept at everything.  Who knows where Justin Fields could have been developmentally wise had he gone to a great organization?  We all see he has some amazing talents at the QB position yet there are some undeniable weaknesses that hold him back and may not even be entirely his fault.  Look Justin is a great kid and he alone made the 2022 season watchable and there is nothing more than I would like to see him succeed but whether it’s fair or not, most likely will not be here as both timing (when drafted) and time are not on his side.

Unfortunately, Justin Fields may be closer to Tim Tebow than Patrick Mahomes.  Both are great guys and extremely athletic but the teams that drafted them were a complete disaster.  If it doesn’t work out here with the Bears, I hope he finds a team that can develop him.

One thing’s for sure, having the 1st overall pick in the draft two years in a row beats the hell out of picking between 12-20 for the past two decades which is the quintessential definition of mediocrity!

We would not be in this position if the Bears didn’t finally do something aggressive and smart:  Fired both Pace and Nagy with time left on their contracts.  I say smart because they finally may have got lucky to hire someone as smart as Ryan Poles whom has done a very good job at deconstructing and then constructing this roster over the past two years.

I really do see the big picture and how important this offseason and draft will be on this organization for the next decade or two.

There are a few very intriguing QB prospects coming out this year and are all in play with our two first round picks this year. Likewise, it’s a really deep WR and Offensive Tackle draft.  What should Ryan Poles do?  Not an easy decision because of time; remember what I said about the NFL being a mult-billon dollar business, well to often time is not luxury in the modern game for those entrusted to build a roster and win a championship.

Sox fans only need to look at what was supposed to be a successful rebuild only for it to blow up in our faces.

So, if time isn’t a factor, then the prudent GM trades back and loads the roster with more talent before being “all in” to win.  Something the Sox recently failed at.

However, we all know that time is a factor and the reality is, if there is a generational talent at QB then you have to take your swing and hopefully you knock it out of the park!

I’m admittedly in the camp that likes Justin Fields enough to keep him this season, but also wanting Poles to draft a QB this year as well as doing some trading back to continue to build out this roster.

Everyone seems to have the opinion that Poles must dump Justin  to draft a QB in round one this year?  Why not hedge your bets and do both after all, iron sharpens iron!

Go Bears!!!

I agree with most of this, and generically, youre correct.

The thing is, you have a talent like Williams available to us, and you just cant pass a player like this up. If he was just another decent prospect with questions etc then sure, what you say makes all the sense in the world.

But a QB like Williams doesnt come around often, and when they do, they are not likely to be available to us. This is the moment. ANd I trust Poles like you do to find a way to put people around him too. Because youre right, that's also very important.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, ParkerBear7 said:

Today’s NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. We all see that QBs are rushed in quickly often to both the organizations and payers detriment.  

 

Unfortunately, the Bears have been light years behind in both identifying and developing QBs.  Even when they get one with talent, they historically can’t protect him, give him ample weapons and or fail to develop a modern offensive scheme.  Jay Cutler has been this Franchise’s greatest modern QB up until this point and everything I just stated is fact.  

When Chicago drafted Fields I honestly did not know much about him but was just hoping they wouldn’t screw him up (i.e. Rex Grossman) especially since we just got burned by Pace and his stupid trade up for Trubisky…. Mitch was a good kid and athlete but just never had the “it factor” and never should have been 1st round pick.  Pace was inexperienced and so was Mitch.  When Fields started dropping in the draft, Pace trade up with NY out of desperation thinking he could reset the clock which fortunately never happened.  However, the Bears organization once again proved to be inept at everything.  Who knows where Justin Fields could have been developmentally wise had he gone to a great organization?  We all see he has some amazing talents at the QB position yet there are some undeniable weaknesses that hold him back and may not even be entirely his fault.  Look Justin is a great kid and he alone made the 2022 season watchable and there is nothing more than I would like to see him succeed but whether it’s fair or not, most likely will not be here as both timing (when drafted) and time are not on his side.

Unfortunately, Justin Fields may be closer to Tim Tebow than Patrick Mahomes.  Both are great guys and extremely athletic but the teams that drafted them were a complete disaster.  If it doesn’t work out here with the Bears, I hope he finds a team that can develop him.

One thing’s for sure, having the 1st overall pick in the draft two years in a row beats the hell out of picking between 12-20 for the past two decades which is the quintessential definition of mediocrity!

We would not be in this position if the Bears didn’t finally do something aggressive and smart:  Fired both Pace and Nagy with time left on their contracts.  I say smart because they finally may have got lucky to hire someone as smart as Ryan Poles whom has done a very good job at deconstructing and then constructing this roster over the past two years.

I really do see the big picture and how important this offseason and draft will be on this organization for the next decade or two.

There are a few very intriguing QB prospects coming out this year and are all in play with our two first round picks this year. Likewise, it’s a really deep WR and Offensive Tackle draft.  What should Ryan Poles do?  Not an easy decision because of time; remember what I said about the NFL being a mult-billon dollar business, well to often time is not luxury in the modern game for those entrusted to build a roster and win a championship.

Sox fans only need to look at what was supposed to be a successful rebuild only for it to blow up in our faces.

So, if time isn’t a factor, then the prudent GM trades back and loads the roster with more talent before being “all in” to win.  Something the Sox recently failed at.

However, we all know that time is a factor and the reality is, if there is a generational talent at QB then you have to take your swing and hopefully you knock it out of the park!

I’m admittedly in the camp that likes Justin Fields enough to keep him this season, but also wanting Poles to draft a QB this year as well as doing some trading back to continue to build out this roster.

Everyone seems to have the opinion that Poles must dump Justin  to draft a QB in round one this year?  Why not hedge your bets and do both after all, iron sharpens iron!

Go Bears!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post logical and well thought out. I have always suggested keeping Fields, loading up on draft picks and let a QB develop for one or two years. They did it in KC with a QB that was never thought to be generational, but Mahomes became that person. Poles is doing the deep dive , if he says Williams, I buying the popcorn, if  he does your option, keep JF1 and develop, it's the best of both worlds. Probably the least likely to happen but Poles does not do what is expected.

[Stinger226]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

That's why youre ignorant and have no idea what youre talking about. Watch some film. Ill put a link below 20 minutes with Kurt Warner. You trust him. Its not highlights or lowlights, its a full game in context, against a quality opponent - so you can see how he comes back from a bad throw etc. Use your eyes and tell me you dont see Caleb playing on time and in structure.

And this game wasnt cherry picked - Id never seen it before the other day when I searched on youtube for something I hadnt seen so I could "wager" with Grizz about it without manipulating the outcome. He didnt watch it either.

You can even hear Warner saying that is isnt one of his highlight games.

If you dont watch all 22 game tape, then youre just hypnotized by someone elses narrative.

Use your own eyes and then tell us fairly what you see. I challenge you. 20 minutes. Just tell us what you see.

Does he hold the ball too long?
Does he make multiple reads?
Does he manipulate the pocket?
How is his release?
Are WRs hit in time and with location to get YAC?
Does he throw with anticipation?
How about velocity?

Not every play is great in this. But watch it, and then tell us if what that stupid sportswriter wrote is true, or whether they lied to you for clickbait and got you all upset defending a lie all this time.
 

 

I guarantee you I have watched more tape than you have on every prospect but his great talent is not in question. Its the rest of his intangibles that come in question. Us cultists accept there are other options and try look at everything. You pretend because we think Justin might get better and adding MJH , and Dallas Turner might be a better option but you're not having any of that. I'm okay with your opinion, why are you so disrespectful of people that don't agree you? 

[Pixote]

Caleb might be the GOAT of the future.

However, I remember other quarterbacks that GMs were drooling over, and they never made it in the NFL. QBs that received just as much praise as Williams prior to being drafted. The first two that come to mind are JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf. Predraft, fans of their teams were already reserving seats for their HOF ceremonies.

Will Caleb be another Russell or Leaf? I don't think so. You certainly don't.

But one thing is for sure: success is not guaranteed when drafting any player, for any position, in any draft slot. That is as certain as the old adage about death and taxes.

 

[adam]

Here is a good fair eval from two QBs (Palmer and Allen) both who recently played in the league (Allen still does). They tend to believe that Williams has a few traits that are rare for QBs to have coming out of college. Basically they say QBs that can make time and space in the pocket while keeping their eyes downfield normally succeed in the NFL. 

 

 

[adam]

55 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Caleb might be the GOAT of the future.

However, I remember other quarterbacks that GMs were drooling over, and they never made it in the NFL. QBs that received just as much praise as Williams prior to being drafted. The first two that come to mind are JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf. Predraft, fans of their teams were already reserving seats for their HOF ceremonies.

Will Caleb be another Russell or Leaf? I don't think so. You certainly don't.

But one thing is for sure: success is not guaranteed when drafting any player, for any position, in any draft slot. That is as certain as the old adage about death and taxes.

 

Ryan Leaf went #2, so he wasn't anywhere near a consensus pick. People loved his size, and one thing he couldn't handle was the spotlight. 

Russell? Just like Leaf, people loved his size, but that's it. He had one good season in college and that only amounted to 3100 passing yards and 28-8 INTs. 

Also, with all the analytics nowadays, I think we will see less and less busts like that. Dudes may not turn out to be all-pros, but they won't be busts like that. 

[Stinger226]

57 minutes ago, adam said:

Here is a good fair eval from two QBs (Palmer and Allen) both who recently played in the league (Allen still does). They tend to believe that Williams has a few traits that are rare for QBs to have coming out of college. Basically they say QBs that can make time and space in the pocket while keeping their eyes downfield normally succeed in the NFL. 

 

 

I'm not sure anyone on this site doesn't think Caleb isn't talented. It's other reasons they question him being drafted. Intangibles, superego. QBs are just hard to analyze until they play in the NFL. If Poles drafts him and he's better than Mahomes like he claims, I love routing for my team in big games.