BearFan PHX

I totally share your optimism. Assuming we get LT right, and i do assume that we will one way or another, we should be a formidable offense. From QB to playcaller, with all those weapons to throw to, and what is currently a decent HB room, we should be a real problem to defend.

hmmm I dunno. The coach probably gets a "what do you think" before you take a player, but not before a trade back, I think? It's an interesting question. id love to know the actual answer.

Yeah, I was saying Loveland was better than Warren all offseason after watching them both. I didnt think we would pick either one, but Warren is not the threat that Loveland is. Warren is more like Kmet in style, while Loveland is like more like a big WR.

I dunno. My guess is that Johnson gives poles names he wants, and they make player evals and rankings and do scenarios, but on the day, i think Poles plays the board. And to some degree Cunningham. But I dont think that Johnson on the day has input to how much we offer to trade up or down for a player? Or when to make a pick and when to trade back? That should be Poles job in a normal organization?

for sure. and he is a big guy. I just think moving Wright was a plan B kind of idea, and taking Trapilo sort of implies that Wright is likely to move to LT.

lol well played

I dont think any therapist would agree with that. people are not just in an optimistic mood or a pessimistic mood and thats what makes them think what they think about football moves. People just have opinions. They arent all manifestations of some inner positive or negative worldview. You make it sound like the opinions are involuntary responses rather than reasoned ideas. Maybe some people are, but lots of people just think about the facts and try to reach conclusions without being driven by some inner theme.

suddenly it ALL makes sense now. Its part of the conspiracy to keep Shadeur Sanders out of the league LOL Velus Jones was a plant.

hahaha oooh thats a good one! Quite the conspiracy! And when the FBI came and got our defensive coordinator last year? Cunningham framed him because he was a big Poles supporter. FIelds knew, and had to be silenced. LOL Davis was so mad about it he decided not to give his all.

I agree with all of that. I guess Im less concerned with the HB itself, as wondering if Poles estimated poorly in picking his trade down targets. The players we DID get are all good picks. I'm happy with them. But Id trade anyone or most of the guys we got in the 4th and later (starting with the LBer) if it meant Ersery instead of Trapilo and it meant moving up a little in the 4th and adding Skatebo. No draft is perfect. Im just trying to do the post mortem to see how we did I guess. I think Poles may have gotten outmaneuvered a couple times.

those comeback videos are impressive for sure.

exactly. It's a tightrope walk. And he did do his due diligence in trying to trade up for Henderson apparently, and he didnt overpay which is also good. Here's a joke for Stinger (I'm making fun of myself): I want Cunningham fired! He is clearly holding Poles back from being more active in draft day trade ups! We could have had Ersery and KJ! Let Poles work! Fire Cunningham! LOL

unless the way the board fell, they were unable to get any of the HBs at various tiers. If that had been their plan and they failed, then it doesnt necessarily say what they think of Swift? I did hear they were trying to trade up for Henderson at one point but the price was too steep. Who knows? I just think based on my own feelings that Swift isn't up to the standard of the most of the parts of this roster. And i think that Johnson traded him in Detroit whn he was even younger than he is now. So my gut call is they would like to replace him. And the way things went, maybe that wont really completely be until next year? Hes not terrible. Hes a decent back. Certainly top 20. But not a gamechanger like the running game weve seen in Detroit under Johnson for example.

I think we intended to get one of the big name HBs in the draft, an failed. I read that Poles tried to trade UP for Henderson, but the price was too high. Then with the trade downs, I think they fell too deep, into areas where the value would be good, but that also exposes you because then the trade up to steal them in front of you isn't too expensive either. Take the same player in a slightly richer neighborhood, and the threat of trade ups is less, because the cost to do that is more? I dunno what the price for Henderson was, but if it was too much, then so be it. I dont want to overpay. But it seems they were a little too confident that there would be enough HBs around to get one at value while dropping down, and instead they kept going just in front of us, and now we are talking about a one year free agent. It's an example of the old haul argument. And it might turn out great. Burden, Trapilo, Turner might all be great for us, and maximized our draft value. But don't we all wish they'd managed to move up a little in the 4th to get Skatebo too instead of whoever we got in the 5ths and 6th etc?

That's why I think Poles may have not done as well on draft day by being too disciplined and staying with the value plan, and trading too low, and then not being able to recover. Or maybe that's the plan?

and not every person is stuck in one way of thinking or the other. Youre attempting to frame all our opinions as not free thinking, but predetermined by a generalized optimistic or pessimistic personality. i think thats not only logically WAY overreaching, but dismissive of our opinions as well. Why not just take each point as it comes without fitting it into some grand scheme saying it comes from a personality type instead of it just being someones opinion about that topic?

actually it doesnt mean that at all. What I was saying is that i dont KNOW if Poles did well in the draft or poorly. I was laying out scenarios based on info i dont have: 1) Poles did well, everyone is happy 2) Poles didnt do well, Johnson would know even if we dont, and act accordingly I was saying that it would be self correcting, even if we dont have the info. And when i say did well or poorly, I dont mean how the players pan out - youre right that takes a couple years - i meant according to their plan going in to it. Johnson will know whether Poles estimated correctly, or traded too far down and got hoodwinked a couple times. i can guess at that, but i dont know. So i was saying Johnson does know, and if Poles had a bad draft according to their charts, then they will know what to do about it. I have mixed feelings about Poles myself. Some things i think he does well, others not so well, and my read of him as insecure, doesnt really matter to the job anymore now that Johnson and Co are here to lead. Back in Flus days i felt we needed more leadership, and Poles couldnt provide it. Now he doesnt need to and it isnt part of his job. Overall, Poles has done a great job in this offseason, i just think he MIGHT have let the board slip away from him in the later rounds. But I dont know that. I was just saying Johnson does. Because he was inside for all the planning, so he has a perfect vantage point to judge how Poles did in the draft, after round 1, and the juice to do something about it *IF* necessary.

At the time, yes. But Im sure Johnson has his own ideas about Swift, positive or negative i dunno, so based on that his role could change.

When Burden was there it was hard to pass him up for value, even though i doubt we had him in our plans or expected him to be there. Im more talking about why we didnt take a HB or OT with 41. And it seems like Turner is the answer there. We did play the board well, and maximize value, but we also traded back and saw players we thought we would take come off the board right before our picks - specifically Ersery, KJ, Skatebo, but if Trapilo plays well at RT and they successfully move Wright to LT, then that solves my worry in a way i didnt expect, or really even support because of the risk, but if it works, then well played.

yup

for sure we can never know, but based on Johnson's body language I now believe that Loveland was our choice the whole time. I could be wrong of course. And it's the difference between what i was saying; what the Bears SHOULD do, and what you were saying: what the Bears WILL do. And in this case we could both be right. i think Banks was a great player, and you thought we wouldnt take him, and both happened to be proved out.

I was thinking more of Kaleb Johnson or Cam Skatebo?

good stuff.

THREE 3rd rounders. It's malpractice.

I have questions as to whether Poles got played in the later rounds, or if he was on plan. I cant possibly know which of course. But I think the more i read and watching the film of Johnson, that Loveland was THE pick the whole time. Of course i was looking at LT, but it feels like the Bears were on Loveland the whole time. So we got what we wanted in round 1. After that, we got value, but i doubt we ended up where we thought we would at all. Burden was probably a surprise and that threw the timing of other projected picks off. It feels like we played the board and maximized value, but we also missed on guy that I at least thought we would want. But no matter what it was, I feel now like Loveland was always the pick, and Johnson is going to show us why.