Fields-O-Meter

[Alaskan Grizzly]

48 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

And I’ll go further - I’ll say 3 years of playing time. So love is just finishing his first season…look at his stats the 2nd half of the year…td to int ratio is spectacular and his receiving corp has no one elite on it and there best running back was most of the year. 

Simple answer…play calling by his HC.  We saw it yesterday head to head with ours and his was by far better. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 hours ago, dawhizz said:

I’m starting to think keeping Fields AND drafting a QB #1 isn’t the craziest option.  You get one more year if Fields on a cheap(ish) contract. You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

I second this…after Pix did. 😎👍

[Alaskan Grizzly]

15 hours ago, adam said:

In my opinion, Fields has plateaued, just like in the GB game, teams that fill the escape lanes make him one-dimensional, taking away his greatest strength. What is left is a subpar passer capable of occasional highlight reel plays. The inconsistency week to week shows that you can't win on the broken plays every week, because they won't always be there. 

Riddle me this.  You’ve suggested Fields might do better playing for a different team and/or for a better system. And in theory if the Bears draft a new QB he will have new OC if not HC.  Then why wouldn’t Justin benefit from having a new OC in Chicago?  Especially if you consider any of the new draftees will have no NFL experience?  And if you also consider all you have to go by are Nagy/Lazor and Getsy as Justin’s coordinators?  

[Stinger226]

58 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Riddle me this.  You’ve suggested Fields might do better playing for a different team and/or for a better system. And in theory if the Bears draft a new QB he will have new OC if not HC.  Then why wouldn’t Justin benefit from having a new OC in Chicago?  Especially if you consider any of the new draftees will have no NFL experience?  Considering all you have to go by are Nagy/Lazor and Getsy as his coordinators?  

Stop using common sense, that's not liked in the sporting World.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Greg Roman is probably the route I go if the Bears are staying the course with Flus and Fields. 

[adam]

 

Using Stathead, here is the group of QBs Fields is comp'd with based on QB Rating, Comp%, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, and INTs for this season:

[Stinger226]

17 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Greg Roman is probably the route I go if the Bears are staying the course with Flus and Fields. 

That's a good name.

[Bill]

4 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

That's a good name.

If you keep klus than I believe you have to keep Fields.  It makes no sense to keep drafting a QB and a year or two later get rid of the head coach.  One stays they both stay one goes they both go.  Stop tying a dead man walking coach with a QB and vs versa.

[Stinger226]

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

If you keep klus than I believe you have to keep Fields.  It makes no sense to keep drafting a QB and a year or two later get rid of the head coach.  One stays they both stay one goes they both go.  Stop tying a dead man walking coach with a QB and vs versa.

I think they do, like you said constantly creating chaos never stabilized a franchise.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

9 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I think they do, like you said constantly creating chaos never stabilized a franchise.

Something just hit me as funny.  (Ironically and maybe literally.)  I have concerns of the Bears becoming the new Browns.  The Browns who "since 1999 have had 38 different starting QBs".  Of those 5 were their own 1st round picks and a handful others that were 2nd and third rounders of their own.  Then if you add in the all the money they dumped into another former 1st rounder in Deshaun Watson for this season to 'make things right' only for it once again, prove faulty.  

Who knew going to the street to find a guy sitting on his couch in Joe Flacco would make the Browns an actual playoff team?  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

If you keep klus than I believe you have to keep Fields.  It makes no sense to keep drafting a QB and a year or two later get rid of the head coach.  One stays they both stay one goes they both go.  Stop tying a dead man walking coach with a QB and vs versa.

agree

keeping mediocrity for the sake of stability just means you will be consistently mediocre.

[dawhizz]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:24 AM, dawhizz said:

I’m starting to think keeping Fields AND drafting a QB #1 isn’t the craziest option.  You get one more year if Fields on a cheap(ish) contract. You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

I will add to this that this is essentially exactly what the Chiefs did when Poles was there and they drafted Mahomes - had Alex Smith coming off a successful season but drafted a QB top ten. 

[BearFan PHX]

14 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

I will add to this that this is essentially exactly what the Chiefs did when Poles was there and they drafted Mahomes - had Alex Smith coming off a successful season but drafted a QB top ten. 

It does make sense to have a rookie QB sit behind a veteran starter to learn the ropes. I think it's common practice. We did it with Trubisky and Fields. So what youre saying makes a lot of sense in general.

I think that Fields is a special case though. he doesnt make reads or execute the offense, so Im not sure hes a role model. He's also got so much love in the locker room it seems, and can you imagine if Caleb Williams is an ego and a head case and anyone even gives a whiff of rejection to him as hes sitting? Or support to Fields and he takes it as rejection? It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

I do like the idea of a rookie sitting behind Bagent, or whatever free agent journeyman QB they want to bring in, but Fields is so young hes of Williams' generation and so unorthodox in style, it seems like a bad idea to me?

Then again bringing in a rookie as the coach is on the hot seat is a bad idea too, and theyve done that multiple times in our history too.

[Stinger226]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Something just hit me as funny.  (Ironically and maybe literally.)  I have concerns of the Bears becoming the new Browns.  The Browns who "since 1999 have had 38 different starting QBs".  Of those 5 were their own 1st round picks and a handful others that were 2nd and third rounders of their own.  Then if you add in the all the money they dumped into another former 1st rounder in Deshaun Watson for this season to 'make things right' only for it once again, prove faulty.  

Who knew going to the street to find a guy sitting on his couch in Joe Flacco would make the Browns an actual playoff team?  

Poles just doesn't look at things like fans do . Unless you are highly successful, you always have 1/2 the fan base that wants change. He constructed a plan to turn the franchise to winning ways, he never said that would only take 2 years. He has upgraded the roster in his first two years, and he got a 5 year contract, so he thinks it's a 5 year plan. If he thinks Flus can rally a team to a constant state of winning he's going to keep him. Remember, he hired him. It's pretty simple his plans are not complete yet.

[BearFan PHX]

So Mel Kiper (Bill Tobin: "Who the hell is Mel Kiper?!) says that he thinks we can trade Justin Fields to Atlanta for their #8 overall pick.

I think Mel's hair is on too tight.

But just for fun - Imagine taking a QB with #1, and having #8 and #9 to play with?

The other thought I'm gonna put in this crazy post is that we've been saying Caleb Williams is just another Justin Fields, that he has the same problems. Another way to look at that is that he has the same possibilities as Justin Fields - like setting the clock back and getting a second swing at the same thing?

For the record, I know both of these items are silly. But while we wait for coaching news - have at it

[adam]

7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

So Mel Kiper (Bill Tobin: "Who the hell is Mel Kiper?!) says that he thinks we can trade Justin Fields to Atlanta for their #8 overall pick.

I think Mel's hair is on too tight.

But just for fun - Imagine taking a QB with #1, and having #8 and #9 to play with?

The other thought I'm gonna put in this crazy post is that we've been saying Caleb Williams is just another Justin Fields, that he has the same problems. Another way to look at that is that he has the same possibilities as Justin Fields - like setting the clock back and getting a second swing at the same thing?

For the record, I know both of these items are silly. But while we wait for coaching news - have at it

ATL has had the #8 pick 3 years in a row lol. They took Bijan and London with their last 2. I would be shocked if they gave that high of a 1st rounder for Fields. I could see a team doing it in the 20s, but most of those teams don't need a QB.

I am not too concerned about that. There is way more tape out there on Williams than there was with Fields. I think the accuracy of the assessment goes way down when you have less reps to look at.  Williams had 1099 passing attempts while Fields had 618 in college. That's a big difference, more than a full season of reps. The other thing that I recently noticed was Fields really didn't do much his 2nd year until late in the season. His early numbers actually look eerily similar to his Bears stats with no games over 250 passing yards, several under 200. I also remember hearing Fields talk about how he didn't run that much, which is weird because 11 out of his last 22 games he had over 10 rushes per game with a 100 yard rushing game in there. In a similar amount of games played, Williams has 14x 300-yd games and 5x 400-yd games. Fields has 7x 300-yd games and 0x 400-yd games passing. 

On a side note, I still can't believe Pace passed on Mahomes or Watson. Mahomes passed for 734 yds in one game and had 3 other games over 500 yds in college. That's 2,422 yards in 4 games. Fields has 2,100 in 8 games his Junior year lol.

[Stinger226]

28 minutes ago, adam said:

ATL has had the #8 pick 3 years in a row lol. They took Bijan and London with their last 2. I would be shocked if they gave that high of a 1st rounder for Fields. I could see a team doing it in the 20s, but most of those teams don't need a QB.

I am not too concerned about that. There is way more tape out there on Williams than there was with Fields. I think the accuracy of the assessment goes way down when you have less reps to look at.  Williams had 1099 passing attempts while Fields had 618 in college. That's a big difference, more than a full season of reps. The other thing that I recently noticed was Fields really didn't do much his 2nd year until late in the season. His early numbers actually look eerily similar to his Bears stats with no games over 250 passing yards, several under 200. I also remember hearing Fields talk about how he didn't run that much, which is weird because 11 out of his last 22 games he had over 10 rushes per game with a 100 yard rushing game in there. In a similar amount of games played, Williams has 14x 300-yd games and 5x 400-yd games. Fields has 7x 300-yd games and 0x 400-yd games passing. 

On a side note, I still can't believe Pace passed on Mahomes or Watson. Mahomes passed for 734 yds in one game and had 3 other games over 500 yds in college. That's 2,422 yards in 4 games. Fields has 2,100 in 8 games his Junior year lol.

Hindsight is a great equalizer, at the time Watson was the prize, several experts were in on MT , only a few on Mahomes. Trying to evaluate college QBs is obviously very difficult because so many teams screw it up. College stats are nice but they are not end all for evaluating QBs , most have great stats in college.  80% of experts had Young as being better than Stroud. Going to teams with good coaches matters just as much. Had Mahomes came to the bears in 2017, he would never be this good.

Listening to the radio everyone is wondering why they haven't announced why they haven't told the press that their keeping Flus. He has a contract, they don't need to tell everybody. The only announcement will be FIRED. Of which doesn't appear to be happening. If you want him fired, the writing is on the wall, he's not being fired, like it or not, Poles seems to be concentrating on building the team. He's resigning fringe players to future contracts and preparing his college evaluation. Someone stated he maybe waiting for a Harbaugh or high end signing which could happen that would take time. I have no problem with an upgrade in coaching but a reset is an admission that Poles plan is failing and I don't think he thinks that. Flus appears to be coming back.

[adam]

19 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Hindsight is a great equalizer, at the time Watson was the prize, several experts were in on MT , only a few on Mahomes. Trying to evaluate college QBs is obviously very difficult because so many teams screw it up. College stats are nice but they are not end all for evaluating QBs , most have great stats in college.  80% of experts had Young as being better than Stroud. Going to teams with good coaches matters just as much. Had Mahomes came to the bears in 2017, he would never be this good.

Listening to the radio everyone is wondering why they haven't announced why they haven't told the press that their keeping Flus. He has a contract, they don't need to tell everybody. The only announcement will be FIRED. Of which doesn't appear to be happening. If you want him fired, the writing is on the wall, he's not being fired, like it or not, Poles seems to be concentrating on building the team. He's resigning fringe players to future contracts and preparing his college evaluation. Someone stated he maybe waiting for a Harbaugh or high end signing which could happen that would take time. I have no problem with an upgrade in coaching but a reset is an admission that Poles plan is failing and I don't think he thinks that. Flus appears to be coming back.

People overthink stuff. Stroud actually had better stats than Young last year, and Alabama didn't even make the college playoffs.

[AZ54]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:04 PM, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Who knew going to the street to find a guy sitting on his couch in Joe Flacco would make the Browns an actual playoff team?  

After giving a guy a fully guaranteed record setting deal no less.  Imagine how you'd feel if you spent that $230 million only to see some dude come off his couch in the middle of the season and play better.  That right there is why you should fire a GM.     

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

After giving a guy a fully guaranteed record setting deal no less.  Imagine how you'd feel if you spent that $230 million only to see some dude come off his couch in the middle of the season and play better.  That right there is why you should fire a GM.     

no doubt

[AZ54]

Adam Mason is back with a video on Fields.  This is not the most comprehensive analysis by far but he does bring up some interesting points.   Prior to seeing that, earlier today I was recalling how everyone was expecting Fields to have a breakout season like Jalen Hurts did in 2022.   Except we all forgett Hurts has a Pro Bowl and maybe HoF center in Kelce and some other top Oline.  At WR he's got AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith.  Going into the season the Eagles Oline was ranked #1 by PFF...

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-2023-offseason

(different sources) By midseason Eagles were still ranked #1 and the entire NFC North is in the top 10 except for one team.  

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/

I can't read entire article but again end of season Eagles are #1.   Its interesting to see Indy ranked #4 and it shows how you can make a QB like Minshew look good and win games with good Oline play.   

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/

 

 

[Stinger226]

All that is interesting. I think it's easy to find some stats that can make whatever narrative you wish to push. Several things can be true at the same time. Justin can still have a high ceiling and Caleb can be a star also. I still think Poles takes Williams if he thinks he's  a Joe Burrow type. He may still be roster building mode and thinks he  can add another QB in the next two years. Literally no one knows what Poles is going to do. That's why this conversation is so passionate at times.

[AZ54]

9 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

All that is interesting. I think it's easy to find some stats that can make whatever narrative you wish to push. Several things can be true at the same time. Justin can still have a high ceiling and Caleb can be a star also. I still think Poles takes Williams if he thinks he's  a Joe Burrow type. He may still be roster building mode and thinks he  can add another QB in the next two years. Literally no one knows what Poles is going to do. That's why this conversation is so passionate at times.

I don't know where he got the data or evaluations on these QBs but I found it interesting that release time for Williams and Fields is nearly identical slow.  Daniels concern is going to be his frame but other than that he seems like QB1.  I don't know how well his shoulder holds up with 300lb DTs landing on it.  While I know that's illegal per se but it still happens.   

[adam]

Watching some more of Fields' play. Even when he is throwing on time, over the middle, or in his progressions, he still has this hitch. He doesn't hit his back foot and just throw it. He either does a little hop, almost does a subconscious little pump fake, or a double clutch. I am seeing this even on what most would deem the good throws. Not all the throws, but a lot of them.

He seems way more comfortable throwing on the move, it is so weird. He also drifts in the pocket, a few times towards an Edge Defender who is going wide. If he stayed center, he could step up, but because he drifted, the Edge is on his back shoulder a step faster than it should be. At the end of the day, he seems like a super athletic dude trying to play QB. He has done it long enough to make some nice plays but it is not natural for him.

Watching this again makes me so pissed at Getsy. What the hell are some of these route combinations? They literally draw defenders in. In some cases, it allows them to cover 3 receivers with 2 defenders, terrible play designs.

There is also not may receivers open. Even with Moore, he has to make a lot of contested catches, or is hit right away.

Here is a good video with a whole bunch of clips put together: 

 

 

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, adam said:

Watching some more of Fields' play. Even when he is throwing on time, over the middle, or in his progressions, he still has this hitch. He doesn't hit his back foot and just throw it. He either does a little hop, almost does a subconscious little pump fake, or a double clutch. I am seeing this even on what most would deem the good throws. Not all the throws, but a lot of them.

He seems way more comfortable throwing on the move, it is so weird. He also drifts in the pocket, a few times towards an Edge Defender who is going wide. If he stayed center, he could step up, but because he drifted, the Edge is on his back shoulder a step faster than it should be. At the end of the day, he seems like a super athletic dude trying to play QB. He has done it long enough to make some nice plays but it is not natural for him.

Watching this again makes me so pissed at Getsy. What the hell are some of these route combinations? They literally draw defenders in. In some cases, it allows them to cover 3 receivers with 2 defenders, terrible play designs.

There is also not may receivers open. Even with Moore, he has to make a lot of contested catches, or is hit right away.

Here is a good video with a whole bunch of clips put together: 

 

 

The key for Justin is you can see him get better, no one thinks he is good enough yet. Many examples of QBs being better later than in the beginning of their career. Browning, Geno Smith, , Baker Mayfield, Kurt Cousins,  Jared Goff, even Lamar Jackson is a better passer these days. He is a unique athlete and we need a OC to design an offense to fit his skill set. He only needs to make 5 pocket passes a game to be successful in this league.

Baker Mayfield

Jared Goff

Brock Purdy

Jordon Love

Patrick Mahomes

Josh Allen 

Lamar Jackson

Stroud

There are only 3 tier one QBs left in the playoffs, Stroud doesn't count with only one yr played. Does this fact say anything about winning in the NFL?