Well now the battle is on with the O-line

[scs787]

Before even looking for more quotes refer back to post 59 in this thread. While they didn't single out RT specifically both Trestman and Emery talked about competition on the line....I see no reason why RT wouldn't be included in those statements.

 

And here's a video clip of Trestman saying there will be competition. Once again not sure why this would exclude the RT position.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/sportsnetChicago...e-to-o-line.htm

[CrackerDog]

It's as if you don't even read what other people post. Were you even on the board at that time? I think you were, which is why it's frustrating to explain it to you. There was a pretty big discussion about the fact that Tice was smitten with Webb because of the blocking sled incident. That single quote is not reaching, nor is the truth behind it.

 

Irrelevant. He was probably "smitten" with dozens of guys for various reasons. He wouldn't have given him the starting job if there was a better answer on the team. You don't hear about all the other guys he was smitten about because they didn't get picked.

 

As for subsequent years, it's what I said earlier in this thread. They are not infallible, regardless of what some of you guys think.

 

Straw man. I never said they were infallible, just smarter than you. And you prove that over and over again each day.

 

I believe Tice saw something in Webb, got happy about it, and kept wanting to prove he was right, come hell or high water. Given that there were no pro-bowlers there to replace Webb (see Lovie drafting propensity below), it was an easier sell to give him the chance based on potential and how good Tice felt about him. Well, where is Tice now? How well did the OL do under his watch?

 

You "believe". Thanks. Unfounded. Next!

 

Regarding Emery, I have no clue why he blew off the OL last year,

 

Good answer. Previously you basically insisted he was part of some grand conspiracy to give Webb the job without any competition this year. You're growing. When you don't know the answer just say so.

 

Seriously, do you forget everything about previous years when it's convenient to your argument? The Tice & Webb thing is documented in many ways. Here's another where Michael Wright confirms that Tice is very high on Webb. And the shit about Lovie has been discussed ad nauseum, and is not even up for debate.

 

And Tice isn't here and you're still talking the same shit about Webb getting the job without competition. I hate to say it but it seems SCS might just be right about you. You hate this guy so much you can't help but get emotional about it. Not that I blame you, he really really sucked.

[Mongo3451]

We are essentially arguing the word if. Silly...

 

[Stinger226]

It's as if you don't even read what other people post. Were you even on the board at that time? I think you were, which is why it's frustrating to explain it to you. There was a pretty big discussion about the fact that Tice was smitten with Webb because of the blocking sled incident. That single quote is not reaching, nor is the truth behind it.

 

As for subsequent years, it's what I said earlier in this thread. They are not infallible, regardless of what some of you guys think. I believe Tice saw something in Webb, got happy about it, and kept wanting to prove he was right, come hell or high water. Given that there were no pro-bowlers there to replace Webb (see Lovie drafting propensity below), it was an easier sell to give him the chance based on potential and how good Tice felt about him. Well, where is Tice now? How well did the OL do under his watch?

 

Regarding Emery, I have no clue why he blew off the OL last year, except that Lovie must have had a significant impact on the selection process and Emery was giving him just enough rope for the hanging. The offense was leaps and bounds worse than the defense, yet the Bears selected DE, WR, S, TE, DB, DB. Gee, 4 defensive guys and 2 offensive guys and no attention to the OL. That doesn't look like previous drafts in which Lovie had a say at all. Look at this year. Even though Emery's hands were tied at LB, and the team has aging stars at multiple positions on defense, there was still an even split between the drafting of offense and defense.

 

Seriously, do you forget everything about previous years when it's convenient to your argument? The Tice & Webb thing is documented in many ways. Here's another where Michael Wright confirms that Tice is very high on Webb. And the shit about Lovie has been discussed ad nauseum, and is not even up for debate.

Im kinda sorry I didnt jump in on this debate, all my favorite master debaters are involved in this one.

[AZ54]

If I could figure out exactly what point they are debating I'd jump in too. I think Mongo is right.

 

This is our traditional end of Jun early July slugfest which over the years has covered: John Shoop, Dick Juaron, Dave Wannstedt (if you go back far enough), Jerry Angelo, Oline, Oline, and.. once again Oline.

 

I believe this: If Webb ends up the weak link of our Oline...consistently play after play..... then our Oline is a lot better than it was last year.

 

 

[Stinger226]

If I could figure out exactly what point they are debating I'd jump in too. I think Mongo is right.

 

This is our traditional end of Jun early July slugfest which over the years has covered: John Shoop, Dick Juaron, Dave Wannstedt (if you go back far enough), Jerry Angelo, Oline, Oline, and.. once again Oline.

 

I believe this: If Webb ends up the weak link of our Oline...consistently play after play..... then our Oline is a lot better than it was last year.

Totally agree with that. I would like him to do well, just have some doubts but we have Mills in the pipeline so future looks brighter no matter what.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

If I could figure out exactly what point they are debating I'd jump in too. I think Mongo is right.

 

This is our traditional end of Jun early July slugfest which over the years has covered: John Shoop, Dick Juaron, Dave Wannstedt (if you go back far enough), Jerry Angelo, Oline, Oline, and.. once again Oline.

 

I believe this: If Webb ends up the weak link of our Oline...consistently play after play..... then our Oline is a lot better than it was last year.

 

I disagree...just because its the thing to do in this thread. Prove me wrong.

[jason]

Irrelevant. He was probably "smitten" with dozens of guys for various reasons. He wouldn't have given him the starting job if there was a better answer on the team. You don't hear about all the other guys he was smitten about because they didn't get picked.

 

Straw man. I never said they were infallible, just smarter than you. And you prove that over and over again each day.

 

You "believe". Thanks. Unfounded. Next!

 

Good answer. Previously you basically insisted he was part of some grand conspiracy to give Webb the job without any competition this year. You're growing. When you don't know the answer just say so.

 

And Tice isn't here and you're still talking the same shit about Webb getting the job without competition. I hate to say it but it seems SCS might just be right about you. You hate this guy so much you can't help but get emotional about it. Not that I blame you, he really really sucked.

 

I actually had more respect for you before this ignorant post. Please go back to the board history, look for all the correlation between Tice and Webb, then do the same on the internet. Actually research it. Afterwards, look at Webb's stats and performance over the same period. Then, look at the screw-job Chris Williams received when he was moved from position to position for the benefit of the team, which just so happened to benefit Webb. The whole thing together is not irrelevant. It's entirely within reason that he would give the job to a guy he stakes his reputation on, a guy he truly believes in, even if the guy performs slightly worse than a competitor. This is especially true when the highs and lows are so drastic, as they are with Webb. It's easier to say something like, "Yeah, he only had those five bad plays," when talking about Webb because he absolutely shits the bed several times a game. Otherwise he performs anywhere between slightly below average to very well. Meanwhile, someone like Williams would never give you the highs, but also rarely gives you the massive lows. It's just that he never really moves far, in either direction, from average to below average.

 

For the final time, the entire thread seems to have spiraled because of the Pompeii article, and if you can't see that his words are synonymous with "no real competition," then I question your grasp on the English language. I freely admit Pompeii could be wrong, and speaking out of his ass - I've noted that I have read plenty of his stuff that has been complete BS - and that it contradicts the concept of competition spoken of by the coaches, but this would not be the first time the coaching staff of the Bears, or any other NFL franchise for that matter, blew smoke to the press while doing something completely different in reality. Suddenly, after years of Lovie Smith, you guys believe in the coaches 100% without reservation? That's lunacy.

 

As for whether Tice is smarter than me, I'll rest easy at night knowing that I'm much smarter than him. In terms of football, he's smarter, but he sure didn't apply the football knowledge to his job or his players. At the very least, I definitely would have argued harder for better players on the OL - I believe my track record here speaks for that. And I'm not quite so sure anyone on the board could have done much worse than he did as an OL coach; there really wasn't much room to go down. Just because someone is smart or knows a lot about something doesn't mean they make the right choices in their field of expertise. Often times it's the person who is considered the expert that makes the mistake, because they are so sure of their knowledge that they ignore the obvious the less immersed would otherwise focus on.

 

Last but not least, there is no grand conspiracy. That's the nonsense you and some other Webb fellatists have come up with. All I've said from the beginning is that everyone keeps giving Webb, and other scrubs, an illogical number of opportunities despite consistently poor results. With Lovie and Tice it was easy to explain because Lovie hated using draft picks for OL. This is unequivocal fact that can be proven via his drafts. As for Emery last year, he most likely let Lovie have too much say in the draft room. (You might want to try reading entire paragraphs instead of cherry-picking single sentences...again with the reading comprehension problems.) With Trestman it appears to have stopped, because he drafted and signed in one year with a definite urgency. I suspect this will be a pattern going forward until the problem is fixed and the offense is legitimate.

[CrackerDog]

I actually had more respect for you before this ignorant post.

 

Boo hoo. I have a sad now.

 

Please go back to the board history, look for all the correlation between Tice and Webb,

 

Why, so I can see yet another argument where you assumed your opinion was reality? I'm not saying there isn't a connection but I continue to say he didn't knowingly start him to the detriment of the team. I've now said that 25 times and you're obviously too damn ignorant to get it.

 

Then, look at the screw-job Chris Williams received

 

Williams sucked too. Hard. You're the only one crying for him.

 

For the final time, the entire thread seems to have spiraled because of the Pompeii article, and if you can't see that his words are synonymous with "no real competition," then I question your grasp on the English language.

 

No, I'm just not selectively reading his quote and seeing what I want to see.

 

I freely admit Pompeii could be wrong,

 

Once in while you ought to concede the same about yourself you arrogant ass.

 

Suddenly, after years of Lovie Smith, you guys believe in the coaches 100% without reservation? That's lunacy.

 

Nobody said that. But you're just as willing to take Pompei's statements as fact so what does that say about you? You're cherry picking my friend.

[CrackerDog]

Often times it's the person who is considered the expert that makes the mistake, because they are so sure of their knowledge that they ignore the obvious the less immersed would otherwise focus on.

 

Maybe it's that they've put their reputation on the line and have some skin in the game, unlike internet expert like yourself.

 

Last but not least, there is no grand conspiracy.

 

Correct. You should've just said that in the first place. I'm tired of schooling you in public.

 

That's the nonsense you and some other Webb fellatists have come up with.

 

The only one around here fellating anyone is you with Urlacher's big sweaty. The rest of us live in the real world. I've said over and over again that Webb sucks but you've found a way to miss it over and over again. Grow a brain.

 

With Lovie and Tice it was easy to explain because Lovie hated using draft picks for OL. This is unequivocal fact that can be proven via his drafts.

 

His drafts. You're also apparently ignorant of the role a GM plays on the team.

 

As for Emery last year, he most likely let Lovie have too much say in the draft room.

 

So here, where it supports your argument, you're willing to give Emery the benefit of the doubt. But not when he says there'll be competition at every position. Interesting...

 

With Trestman it appears to have stopped, because he drafted and signed in one year with a definite urgency. I suspect this will be a pattern going forward until the problem is fixed and the offense is legitimate.

 

I think the problem was so evident last year it couldn't be ignored by anyone with even modest competence. Frankly Emery's drafts have been very questionable so I'm not going to hang my hat on anything he's done until it proves out.

[LT2_3]

For the final time, the entire thread seems to have spiraled because of the Pompeii article, and if you can't see that his words are synonymous with "no real competition," then I question your grasp on the English language.

 

Jason - Are you suggesting that there is "no real competition" because there aren't players in the mix good enough to challenge Webb seriously, or that the players that are in the mix aren't being given a fair shake at the competition?

 

I think that Pompeii is suggesting the former. I think he is expressing his opinion that he feels Webb is the best player in the mix and should win the job handily. I don't think that he is suggesting that the other players in the mix at RT aren't being given a fair opportunity because he could easily have said that or that the competition has already been won. I also think that if the other guys in the mix weren't obviously getting a fair shot, that other and more salacious reporters would have also noticed that and would have happily written an article taking the coaches to task for "no real competition" as you like to say.

 

So if you want to say there is "no real competition" at RT because Emery didn't have the resources to bring in a candidate with a skill set obviously better than Webb to a sportswriter, then you may have a point. Otherwise, your "coaches lie to the media so we can't trust them" theory is kinda weak with no evidence other than a personal interpretation of one writer's offhand comment.

[CrackerDog]

Jason - Are you suggesting that there is "no real competition" because there aren't players in the mix good enough to challenge Webb seriously?

 

I think that's the obvious interpretation as I mentioned in Post #50 in this thread. But don't piss off Jason The Great or he'll tell you your grasp of English is suspect and that you're fellating Webb... Next thing you know he'll be starting posts with "Yo Momma's So Fat".

[50england50]

I think it is about time this thread was deleted. I know it is a boring period but there is no need for this continual bitching. Webb this Webb that to be honest I don't really care. I have my opinion and I am happy to listen to others and if I don't agree I won't attack the person until he agrees with me or stops posting. Maybe we should all agree the oline as been pathetic the last at least 4 years and I don't care who starts as long as I don't feel embarrassed come week 1 if the first play from scrimmage is a holding call, sack or minus 8 yard run.

[GakMan23]

I think it is about time this thread was deleted. I know it is a boring period but there is no need for this continual bitching. Webb this Webb that to be honest I don't really care. I have my opinion and I am happy to listen to others and if I don't agree I won't attack the person until he agrees with me or stops posting. Maybe we should all agree the oline as been pathetic the last at least 4 years and I don't care who starts as long as I don't feel embarrassed come week 1 if the first play from scrimmage is a holding call, sack or minus 8 yard run.

 

 

 

If you don't like the thread, stop READING it. Just saying as noone is forcing you to read this particular thread. Read all the other stuff and ignore this one, problem solved. I for one have been enjoying this thread

[madlithuanian]

I agree with both you guys...

 

Any meaningful discussion is dead on this thread. However, it is good for a chuckle!

 

I usually have been just ignoring it, but when exceptionally bored, I look at the lastest pot shots sent back and forth...

[CrackerDog]

I agree with both you guys...

 

Any meaningful discussion is dead on this thread. However, it is good for a chuckle!

 

I usually have been just ignoring it, but when exceptionally bored, I look at the lastest pot shots sent back and forth...

 

Ha! Glad we could amuse you. Just so everyone knows, I gave up on this thread a while back and just decided to have fun with it too.

 

Jason, I apologize for being a tool to you. You're a fairly knowledgeable football fan with a somewhat inflated ego but I respect you. I realize that probably didn't get expressed in a few of my latest posts here.

 

Peace.

[madlithuanian]

Like one big happy dysfunctional family!

 

 

Ha! Glad we could amuse you. Just so everyone knows, I gave up on this thread a while back and just decided to have fun with it too.

 

Jason, I apologize for being a tool to you. You're a fairly knowledgeable football fan with a somewhat inflated ego but I respect you. I realize that probably didn't get expressed in a few of my latest posts here.

 

Peace.

 

[jason]

Jason - Are you suggesting that there is "no real competition" because there aren't players in the mix good enough to challenge Webb seriously, or that the players that are in the mix aren't being given a fair shake at the competition?

 

I think that Pompeii is suggesting the former. I think he is expressing his opinion that he feels Webb is the best player in the mix and should win the job handily. I don't think that he is suggesting that the other players in the mix at RT aren't being given a fair opportunity because he could easily have said that or that the competition has already been won. I also think that if the other guys in the mix weren't obviously getting a fair shot, that other and more salacious reporters would have also noticed that and would have happily written an article taking the coaches to task for "no real competition" as you like to say.

 

So if you want to say there is "no real competition" at RT because Emery didn't have the resources to bring in a candidate with a skill set obviously better than Webb to a sportswriter, then you may have a point. Otherwise, your "coaches lie to the media so we can't trust them" theory is kinda weak with no evidence other than a personal interpretation of one writer's offhand comment.

 

I'll ignore cracker since he's not reading paragraphs when replying. Respect is mutual, but there is obvious disagreement with this mini-subject.

 

I'm obviously suggesting the former, which is why I started the line of thought with, "Webb basically being handed the job." Surely other people are getting snaps, but it's just that the other people getting snaps aren't worth a damn. It's like lining up the worst basketball player in the NBA next to a midget and saying they have an equal shot at the starting position. That's simple half-truth.

 

The coaches aren't actively lying to the media; they're simply using half-truth and coach-speak. Of course they're going to tell the media there is competition at every position. Ask them about QB and RB and they'll say the same thing, even though we know it's not true, and nobody is supplanting Cutler or Forte. It's just an easier thing to say for them when referring to players who are not absolutely locked into a position as a starter. In terms of Webb, they can say it because they know the fans expect it; but, at the same time, they know the "competition" they are providing to Webb is the midget basketball player. Hence Pompeii's article and the meaning of the words "fall flat on your face," as if there is another acceptable English-language interpretation at all.

[scs787]

I've tried to stay out of this since my last post but I can't resist.

 

I'm sorry Jason but let this shit go, there is absolutely no reason for there not to be a competition. ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NO REASON at all that Webb "basically gets handed the job". For you, a "respected" football mind on this board, to continue to believe just makes you look ignorant and thus the quotations around respected....

 

You can't take a god damn skewed quote as truth....Didn't Pompei say Fendi Onubun was gonna play a significant role in this offense??? Why the hell are you gonna completely shut that quote down while holding onto this quote so much? I'm sure I can go through many of Pompei's mailbox questions and see other questionable quotes that we can skew into something irrelevant at this time (meaning right now, a month before they even put pads on).

[jason]

I've tried to stay out of this since my last post but I can't resist.

 

I'm sorry Jason but let this shit go, there is absolutely no reason for there not to be a competition. ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NO REASON at all that Webb "basically gets handed the job". For you, a "respected" football mind on this board, to continue to believe just makes you look ignorant and thus the quotations around respected....

 

You can't take a god damn skewed quote as truth....Didn't Pompei say Fendi Onubun was gonna play a significant role in this offense??? Why the hell are you gonna completely shut that quote down while holding onto this quote so much? I'm sure I can go through many of Pompei's mailbox questions and see other questionable quotes that we can skew into something irrelevant at this time (meaning right now, a month before they even put pads on).

 

For the last time, it's not necessarily what I believe. This all goes back to what Pompeii said. None of us has seen practices. Pompeii has. The difference between that and something like "Onobun will play a significant role," - if he even said that - is that the former is a matter of simply counting reps and looking at competition, the latter is an unknown projection.

 

Unless Pompeii is just speaking out of his ass - something I've granted as a possibility - then we have to assume he's speaking about what he's seen in terms of snaps and competition. Why else would he put something about Webb being a virtual lock for the position?

[scs787]

For the last time, it's not necessarily what I believe. This all goes back to what Pompeii said. None of us has seen practices. Pompeii has. The difference between that and something like "Onobun will play a significant role," - if he even said that - is that the former is a matter of simply counting reps and looking at competition, the latter is an unknown projection.

 

Unless Pompeii is just speaking out of his ass - something I've granted as a possibility - then we have to assume he's speaking about what he's seen in terms of snaps and competition. Why else would he put something about Webb being a virtual lock for the position?

 

And why else would he point out, in the very same quote we're talking about, that THERE WILL BE COMPETITION if Webb is a virtual lock....I love how you guys said READ THE DAMN QUOTE and that you guys chose to simply skip that sentence.

[LT2_3]

Jason - I'm glad you clarified. I actually kind of agree with you, except that I don't trust Pompeii's evaluation based on what little he might have seen from them running around in shorts this early.

 

I think the number one challenger at this point is Scott - who Emery praised in his end of season press conference for the work he did filling in at RT last season.

 

While it usually seems trite to point out that the challengers could get coached up in TC, I don't think it is in this case. After seeing Kromer work with the rookies on the mothership website, somebody might take to the coaching better than Webb and actually prove better in the new blocking scheme.

 

So, while it's disappointing that we couldn't afford a better challenger in FA, I do believe that the improved coaching will bring the younger guys along more quickly, and the change in style kind of puts everyone in the same bozt.

[CrackerDog]

I'm obviously suggesting the former,

 

Then you should've stopped arguing with me after my Post #50 in this thread.

 

If they don't have someone better to challenge him that's a problem at the GM level. The coaches can only mold the clay they're given. So if Pompei is saying "Webb is going to win this job because the competition at his position sucks worse than him" that's very different than him saying the Bears have settled the RT job despite there being other better options. You seem to be changing your position, which is fine, but don't pretend for a minute that you haven't been caught flip flopping.

[Stinger226]

For the last time, it's not necessarily what I believe. This all goes back to what Pompeii said. None of us has seen practices. Pompeii has. The difference between that and something like "Onobun will play a significant role," - if he even said that - is that the former is a matter of simply counting reps and looking at competition, the latter is an unknown projection.

 

Unless Pompeii is just speaking out of his ass - something I've granted as a possibility - then we have to assume he's speaking about what he's seen in terms of snaps and competition. Why else would he put something about Webb being a virtual lock for the position?

I think what we need to keep in mind is it is just (his opinion), it means little in the reality of what happens. You guys arguing over stupid stuff is what makes this blog interesting, just wish I would have got in on the birth of the argument.

[bowlingtwig]

Funny how SCS says we shouldn't listen to what pompei says while he sits there and says we should take the words from the coaching staff as 100% truth. My oh my. I've said several times that u can't always trust a media member u should also know u can't always trust what the coaching staff(regardless of team or sport). Let's say for a sec that coaching staff believes Webb is best lineman on team right now. So they come out and tell us that and say he's guarateed the RT job regardless of what happens in camp. Just imagine the vitriol that would be thrown there way. Regardless of what they think they wouldn't come out and tell us that. Coaching staffs are typically spitting out either half truths or telling us what we want to hear. Truth is none if us no exactly how this particular coaching staff goes about everything. Unlike with lovie we knew he wasn't going to ever tell us anything at all