Alaskan Grizzly

I found this article that leans towards some of my concerns about the current situation and especially Pace. One difference for me is that I’m not convinced Fox is a horrible coach. https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2017/11/2...e-poor-judgment

Again (BOLDED) that in and of itself is a feat. No matter how you slice it. In his prime Marv Levy was considered a football legend because he went to four consecutive Super Bowls despite not being able to win any of them. The fact being, at least his teams got the chance to be there. Would they fire a coach these days because of a record like that? Probably. It probably also deserves repeating that not only did Fox take two separate teams to Super Bowls but also used players like Jake Delhomme to go to one and Tim Tebow to get close with another. Yes; Peyton put them over the top but through it all the constant was the same; Fox...until it wasn't.

Wow... talk about over the top! Lol. I should remind you guys that mentioning Lovie could get you admitted to a psych evaluation. How dare you!!! (Sorry Mad, had to). So here’s a perspective to think about. I was recently perusing some articles about Fox’s current situation and found an article that in part read; ‘Players shocked to find Fox let go’. As it turned out it was an article about his leaving Denver a few years back. That being said what has happened to Denver since he left? So far they are a combined 24-19 to include a current 3-8 record this year and a 12-4 record the year after Fox left: the same year they won the Super Bowl. An argument could be made that having Fox leave was key to propel them to a win in the Super Bowl rather than just appear in it. At any rate I’m still of the opinion we should still continue to question the ability of Pace. Sure you expect the players to play well and maybe Fox is to blame for not motivating them enough. But you have a performer and potential pro bowler in Hicks calling for him to stay. I don’t think he’s in any way shape or form “coddled”. But there are some players like 2017 draft picks Shaheen, Cohen and Morgan who all came from D2 schools that may take a bit longer to get used to the speed of the NFL. Heck even Trubisky is showing some growing pains with the NFL after having limited exposure in a D1 enviornment. Fox is not the one harvesting these players. I realize that Fox will ultimately answer to this current situation and almost wonder if he’s more a fall guy. We won’t really know until after Pace makes his choice from the alleged list. Nor will we know until after a year or two of possible continued mediocrity or worse.

Could it be leaders like Hicks want Fox back next year and others may not? “Akiem Hicks said today on @mullyhanley that he wants John Fox to be back with the Bears. "As a group and as a team, we’re 1,000 percent behind him." http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/11/27/aki...h-job-security/

Im with you but not quite ready to wholesale give up on Fox. A lot of reasons already listed on another post (and I won’t rehash here) but the biggest piece is the potential loss of Fangio. And I’m not completely sold that what we’re seeing is completely Fox’s fault. My ‘sixth sense’ tells me something isn’t right behind the scenes. Could it be true that Fox is more a power hungry control freak that is limiting the teams growth or is it the much less experienced GM not able to deliver top tier talent because he’s sure it can be found in lower tier D2 schools and the like? Either way, we dump Fox now and I see it causing a significant ripple effect that hopefully would prove positive. But the conspiracist in me cant help wonder if it’s that obvious.

Trubisky has a lot of questionable throws today. If not over their heads he threw way behind the receivers in a large percentage of passes. Still needing lots of work.

Hey, at least our team won’t lose because of a missed FG or XP right? That’s a positive.

To my dysfunctional TalkBears family; Happy Thanksgiving!! We are no doubt the best, smartest and wisest group of Bears fans ever in all their history. It’s an honor to gripe alongside all of you throughout all these years! Here’s to one day again hoisting that damn Lombardi trophy someday over the beloved orange and blue! May it be sooner than later! All my best to all of you...yes all of you!!!

Here you go. I WAS WRONG in engaging you on this matter. That's what you wanted and there you go. Look, I have no issue with admitting that I'm wrong, if I'm shown that I am. You mistake (or mis-label) my "twisting" of the narrative to your dislike for it. I won't admit I'm wrong simply because your opinion is different than mine. As I've pointed out before, I have some credibility issues with you. You feel I have no understanding of football, good for you. Frankly, don't care. Funny you should say that and despite your comments to the contrary I have yet to see you say you were wrong about Cutler. Maybe I missed it but again...whatever. This 'conversation' has drug out for far too long. And to the other posters, I apologize. Say what you will, because I know you will, and I'm 'moving on'.

The more I 'talk' to you about this subject, the less I like. My 'analogy' of Smith was simply that. You have your cute little ones you like to pepper into the commentary and I have mine. They are different in how they illustrate the story but basically they are the same. Sorry if mine annoy you like yours do me. I think we have gotten off the path and into the thistle on this matter. A lot of that is my doing because I got too hyper-focused on the Toub piece of the puzzle. Backing up a little, that was one piece to a muti-layered thought of a do-over going into next year. Again, in my opinion, to avoid total upheaval (ala 2013 when Trestman and company were hired) I feel the more prudent move would be to promote from within and make Fangio the HC with presumably Donatell the DC. For the last three years the one star, besides Howard, to the Bears has been the performance of the defense. Never mind the different pieces he's had over that time, Fangio somehow has managed to consistently build a top 10 worthy defense. As Jason pointed out, and I agree, historically the Bears have NEVER been a dominant offense machine. We've tried various iterations of OC's and HC's with offense backgrounds only to be let down. I agree that Trubisky is the 'future' of our QB position (I'd stop short of labeling him the Franchise for now). And changing our team wholesale to focus on offense, at the risk of losing someone like Fangio, to me is risky...might even say fool-hardy. Now the correlation I made with Belichick is that I noticed he got his start with Special Teams. At some point he was co-titled; 'defensive assistant' with Special Teams remaining as his primary title. To me, the only obvious difference between he and Toub (in that regard) is the title (and that Belichick followed the defensive side of the field). We really don't know where Toub's experience lies beyond Special Teams...at least on paper. We know he is good friends with and hangs around Andy Reid an awful lot, himself a pretty darn good offensive mind. And using the cliché 'birds a feather...' we can only presume he at least understands offense. After I post my response to ChiTown (because I know he savors the chance to retort) I'll be done with this subject. Not because I'm giving up but mostly because I'm frankly done with it and said all I can. Toub or no, we wlll make some change going into next year. And like Killer says, once this season is over I'll be looking forward to next year's draft. Happy Thanksgiving.

I suppose if you'd lovingly prefer to call me "Lavar" I shall dub thee Donald. Why is that? We can discuss elsewhere in a political forum but I'll tell you that you both have a ton of parallels. And like Donald, before you assume that is a compliment...its not. Spare me the ridiculous assumptions I have no understanding about what football is about. You're embarrassing yourself with idiotic and childish presumptions. The fact that you whole heartedly support the idea of our overall #2 pick being the 'messiah' tells me you are blind in love or just plain 'naive'. Remember, you are the guy that was and is convinced that if Cutler 'was given the right opportunity' he could've been somebody. Yeah I'm the clueless one. So you're sure you could find someone to buy Bear's season tickets for $10,000 are you?

One thing I do know is that we have not had a winning season since Lovie Smith. You and others here were beside yourselves with the idea that not only was the 'wicked witch Smith' gone but FINALLY they were going to hire someone to cater to Cutler and his abilities. That did not pan out. Is that the organization's fault? Probably. Still, you were supportive of the unconventional idea. You even held out hope that at some point Cutler would prove himself worthy of the title; "Franchise Quarterback". Again you and many others were let down. I almost question your credibility like I highly doubt your new friend Chitown. You were once ok with risky picks and ideas but are now against them. I get it. 'Burn me once, shame on you...burn me twice...' and all that. So, since you apparently have this all mapped out, who are your recommendations for HC or OC? Please enlighten me with what you think would be a "safe" choice to lead your "potential" Franchise QB and the Bears to the promised land? *Edit* Because I was curious, I did some more reading up on this very idea. Take a look at the path Bill Belichick took and let's discuss. I think it relevant.

Just as he could theoretically make a good HC so too could he be a decent OC. The ante wouldn't necessarily be all that risky if he finds a great QB coach. Imagine someone like a Tony Romo deciding one day he would rather be an NFL coach; you don't think people would jump at the chance to get him? I know that's less likely than Toub being hired as OC but you never know. The point being, in order to be successful in whatever he did part of Toub's success (or any good lead coach) is to surround yourself with good people that know their stuff. If he were to find reputable assistant coaches I'm sure he'd be able to do just fine. As far as overall coordinating, he's studied under one of the more reputable offensive minds in Andy Reid so safe to say he probably understands offense a lot better than people give him credit.

2. I doubt that. 4. 'What' never happens? 5. Actually no you didn't. As Jason pointed out, you posted a link that shows current OC's in the NFL, half of which were at one time Head Coaches and then fired. Which goes to show some OC's don't succeed as HC's. 6. I still don't think it a 'dumb comment' because you have no proof he couldn't be. Again, just your opinion...which is not credible (as we established previously). 8. I'll pass, for two reasons: I don't bet and the Bears season tickets aren't worth $10,000.

Not that it makes any difference to this conversation; yes I have both played and coached. But again, this has nothing to do with the discussion. The list YOU PRESENTED reflects a list of some people that were at one time Head Coaches and may have previously been OCs only to go back to being OCs after failing in the role of HC. In one case; McCoy went from being an OC to HC to OC to fired in less than two years. “YOUR LIST” proves a flaw in your argument that at least half of the current OC’s have failed as Head Coaches. It says nothing of Special Team coaches abilities. You have no data to support your claim that a Special Teams coach could not be an OC. Only opinion. We have RARE occurrences of them being successful as HCs and can only derive that aside from Harbaugh the conventional wisdom is that Special Team Coaches are not suited for the role as Head Coaches. Unless, perhaps they were first given the opportunity to succeed elsewhere and perhaps in a lesser role.

Funny thing about your 'list'; about half of those guys were once HC's that were fired and eventually re-hired as OC's. Hmmmm... And as of yesterday one guy on your 'list', Mike McCoy, was fired as OC in Denver one year removed from being fired as HC in SD.

Was thinking the same thing every time I saw them cutaway to him on the sideline. Their offense hasn't been really all that spectacular since he's been there.

He hasn't been hired for an HC job either. And since 2011 has interviewed for at least 4 maybe 5 of them. Why is that? What you suggest is a COMPLETE overhaul of the entire coaching staff; similar to 2013 when Trestman came in with the likes of Tucker on as DC. I really don't get what your absolute dislike is for the idea I propose. Your reaction seems way out of character and to me makes as little sense as mine does to you. But whatever, chances are pretty good it won't happen anyhow so you can take solace in knowing that.

Spot on optimistic review. Well said.

It’s like “PS4 talk”? How so? Please elaborate. What makes you so sure he’d succeed as an HC moreso than an OC? Having someone like Fangio stay on as HC is less disruptive to at least half the team. And with this teams youth that’s important. We know Fangio has the ability to lead as HC; not as convinced about Toub. There is a remote chance he could come in and lay an egg. Having someone like Toub come in as OC only disrupts the other half of the team if he doesn’t work out. If he does better than expected he could be promotoed to assistant HC or eventually HC if Fangio chooses to move on.

Yeah Trubisky should’ve run out and kicked Barth right in the sack and said ‘that’s how you kick it!’ Trub had a really decent day despite that turnover early on. Great learning game. Looked crisp and less hesitant. Liked what I saw.

God is not a Bears fan! Lol!!! Ugh... if Barth remains on the roster past tomorrow Fox should be fired...immediately.

Great it may come down to Barth trying to tie it up. Please just score a TD and get it over with. Lol

DP

One thing you’ve always been good at is making excuses. That is pretty obvious. What exactly did Cutler do in that Championship game? Besides sit in the sideline? I know your reading comprehension lacks so perhaps your understanding of football does too. I’ll take your advice and move on. I’m done here.