azbearsfan

So you want to line up Olsen next to Hester and run that? lol That wouldn't be too obvious to an NFL defense. And why would the OL run over there? And if you haven't noticed over the past year or so they have been running that play to Hester, but defenses have been "spying" Hester so usually he gets crushed after 2-3 yrds.

Agree. The thought process is to take advantage of the corners bailing right away to a deep zone. We used it early in the game and its the same as a 5 yard run or so. Its supposed to make the corners come up so then you can burn them deep. Maybe with a hitch and go where they pump fake the quick look and go by a pressing DB. Its made to look worse than it is when our brainy, game manager checks to it in a critical situation where the defense is stacked and the DB are pressing to take away the short ball. What is supposed to happen when the corners are pressing is the QB pump fakes it and the receiver goes right by.

So you are saying the OC should have known the Rex would fumble? Are you serious? How can you say the 2nd and 1 call is bad? Davis is running a 15yrd sideline route, not down the middle of the field. Nobody is 5 steps from Davis. Again, thats hate on Turner just to hate. An NFL quarterback needs to hit the receiver. On second and short, you take your shots. So 3rd and 1 Turner calls your run and Orton chekcs out. And 4th Kellen is in because its a 3 TE set. The same one we have seen for years, that has scored and gotten first down numerous times. So who would you blame if Turner gives the ball to Forte on 4th and 1 and he gets stuffed, since thats the play you wanted? lol And BTW thanks for going over the top again. Never said to memorialize Turner. Just said when the players execute his offense rolls. Ala when Kramer was here and the Rex superbowl year. I'm not sure what the Jimmy Mac Super Bowl YEAR has to do with a debate on Turner as an O -Coodinator, but its surprises me that you liked that year since you have said you would rather lose in the first round of the playoffs than get to a super bowl. Toggle Side Panel

Oh so Rex fumbling is the OC's fault. And the second and 1 play was good. Its your buddy Orton that cant hit a wide open Davis. And what about the 3rd and 1 play that qb with the large brain, as you say, changed to a 0yrd pass to Booker that nearly got picked and taken house. Players have to execute friend. I disagree with the 4th and 1 call too and have said as much. But looking at the replay if Kellen Davis gets his block then we get a first down. And forget about the Kramer days all you want, but back then the offense was setting records and the defense was trash.

lol Why is our OC a b****? Because our QB audibles to crappy plays or because our QB can throw an accurate ball over 15 yards? He wasn't a b**** when Rex was hitting Berrian and co. en route to a SuperBowl and he wasn't a b**** when Kramer was setting passing records back in the 90's. He called one bad play last game and that one would have got the first down except for the rookie TE missing his block. Give it a rest.

He was never our best "offensive" weapon. He was our best special teams weapon. I said that we should pay him like the best return man ever, but giving him any more money until he has proven to be a legit threat on offense was a waste IMO. AZ54 you are right on one thing. The field position doesn't mean squat if we can't score.

lol Yeah but if Turner doesn't call down field passes he gets ripped on here. I think its on the NFL QB to complete them. I mean geez, Orton is so good at stepping up in the pocket and was considered for the heisman.

Man I did the statistical thing during camp. Statistically, rex is a better QB. Then people said I would rather win. Well Rex and Kyle's winning percentage was the same. Plus Rex's playoff record is better. So whatever. People are not going to give Rex credit for the Super Bowl season at all. Thats fine. They hate just to hate sometimes. Like the logic that it is better to lose in the first round of the playoffs than lose the Super Bowl. That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. The bottom line is that Rex's time has gone. He did well while he was here, got us to a Super Bowl, but was hurt alot and to much of a gunslinger for people and was not appeciated for the good stuff that he did. At this point, Orton needs to get past the issues I had with him in training camp. Consistant accuracy is huge. Not hitting wide open receivers is not acceptable. Audibleing into WORSE plays than the original call is not acceptable. We can give him a game like this to "learn" but at this point its time to show that he can be more than just a game manager. He is going to need to show that he can lead a team down the field to win a ball game. If he does not improve, then I would like to see what we have in Hanie before we waste another pick on a QB.

Its funny you guys are talking about all these offenses, but the common factor for all offenses is the people to run it. We dont have a Marshall Faulk or Peyton Manning. And looking at the Eagles and Cowboys, we dont have a guy as good as Tony Romo, McNabb, TO, or Brian Westbrook. Shoot, Turner offense was explosive last time he was here with Kramer and Conway.

lol Check out my first post in this thread. I said plenty of blame to go around. Olsen, Orton, Turner for the 4th and 1 play, the defense, and Davis for drops a holding penalty and getting in D Mannings way on his kick return. If Davis doesn't trip Manning up he takes it a long way. I still think you are giving Harris way too much credit. That guy was trying to learn the defensive coverage when he was here not learning our audible signals which are changed anyway. There is no doubt in my mind that the Carolina defense was able to read Orton in the first half and know what the heck he was calling by the third quarter. Its like tipping your pitches in baseball. If your theory is true, then we are doomed against our old quarterback next week as he truely knows the offense.

lol When did we sign a QB as good as McNair?

Nfo, We do it in high school. Its not that tough. If high school kids can do it, pros can. And if teams didn't change them then everyone would know everyones elses calls because people change teams all the time. So you think that next week Tampa Bay will know all of our calls because Griese was here last year and we dont change them? No way. And no Harris is not that smart. I saw their linebackers calling out the plays as well. They were reading Orton and not calling the exact play, they were calling what type of play it was, pass or run. The fear is this. Pretty soon teams are going to take away the run and short passing game. Orton will have to loosen them up by hitting wide open receivers past 15 yards. And he will have to be an NFL caliber QB and check to the correct plays. And if we are talking about "ifs", what if Carolina holds onto the 3 near picks, the last one going house. What do you say about Orton then? And I disagree about the defense. We dont have a good enough defense for Orton to kick back and play like he did on Sunday. That defensive effort in the second half was bad, IMO. Looked like the preseason, letting a rookie gash them like that. Missed tackles, Brown and Vasher look like trash in coverage. Orton is going to have to win games like that for us....and he didn't.

Dude they change audible calls/plays every game. What was called an audible when Harris was here has been changed many times. The defense was sniffing out Orton's changes. He changed to a bad play several times throughout the game. And I disagree. He didn't play well enough to win this game. We needed a leader to march us down the field, and we didn't get it. Not that I want Rex in, because I think his ship has sailed, but Orton needs to improve quickly.

Will you take a first round exit or Super Bowl?

Again I agree with most of what you are saying. Orton is what he is. He has yet to put to rest my questions of him. First, his accuracy, which we saw yesterday. Skipping throws, overthrows, and his line would look much worse if not for Lloyd (a pleasant surprise BTW) making tough catches on poorly thrown balls. Plus Carolina dropped three picks. At one point, they showed he was 1 for 10 in throws over 15 yards. We need to get those completed, especially when people stack the box against the run. And secondly his "management" skills. This area was supposed to be a plus. He made some bad changes to plays and sometimes made them late. By the end of the game, Carolina knew exactly what he was changing the play to. They showed the Carolina defense reacting to an Orton audible and calling the play accurately. This is something to be worried about. They are loosening the reigns for Orton to call more of his own game and it basically backfired on his. Hopefully this is just a "brainfart" game for Orton, but he needs to get better so he can win us some games.

Agree. He has to be more than a game manager for us to be successful. He has to be able to have some accuracy on those deep throws and loosen the defense up. He also needs to make his audibles quicker and check to better plays.

Nah. Hester is too busy collecting big money to be a number 5 wideout and a nonfactor in the return game.

Not true. He is not getting doubled on every play.

lol Tell your boy Orton to hit Davis wide open and its not even an issue.

At least we gave him, Hester, Url and Briggs big money.

He almost also threw three picks. He needs to improve quickly.

There is plenty of blame to go around. The only thing Turner did bad was that last 4th and 1 call. But if Orton hits an open Davis then we are not in that spot. First you have Olsen. Nuff Said. ORton is what he is. When we can run the ball, he is fine doing his stepping into the pocket stuff and management. When we need him to win a game, he didn't get it done. I've been saying he is innaccurate for over a year with him missing high and skipping balls. His backers said he just needed more reps, time, etc. Well he needs to complete open looks.... over 12 yards. The Panthers also dropped three picks, remember. The most disturbing part was Orton totally mismanaging his audibles. Sometimes it messed up the line timing. Other times he checked out of good plays. And in the second half they showed that when Orton audibled the Panthers were accurately predicting the audibled plays. This is totally the opposite of one of Orton's supposed strengths. We can only hope he learns from this game, because that info is sure to make it around the league. We can also blame the laziness of the penalties. The last thing is the defense pulled their notorious second half dissappearing act. They dominate the first half only to show the missed tackles and weak coverage that plagued them in preseason. Anyone check out Urlacher on that one yard TD run. Terrible. Here's to getting things fixed next week.

Good man. BTW I hate the term "eat crow". You dont need to eat crow, just the fact that you saw the game plan was good and are celebrating a great win is good enough for me. And BigDaddy.....we have seen the scheme is good. If they fall asleep next week, its on the players.

Um yeah. Dude if you blitz, then an area is open. Thats just how it works. So if the area you are giving up in the slants you run to the football and tackels and strip the ball. So you would rather not blitz, take away the scary slant and let Manning carve us up again with the deep ball?

You weren't a sucker. In my league, he was the leading fantasy scorer by 100 pts over LT. It just sucks. I have Garrard as a bench guy too, but he got sacked like 7 times and threw two picks. Now I have to pick up either Kurt Warner or Matt Ryan